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Various Translations Of John 1:1


Bsix

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Last night, I was reading the wiki article on the translation of John 1:1.

Eons ago (before the first ice age) a participant on the ZLMB message board did a post that included a list of about two dozen different english translations of John 1:1. The list also included references to how that passage is translated in other languages.

In my head, I remember that Kerry Shirts or Bickmore provided the list. But I can't be sure.

Does anyone here have that list...or one similar to it?

Thanks,

Six

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Last night, I was reading the wiki article on the translation of John 1:1.

Eons ago (before the first ice age) a participant on the ZLMB message board did a post that included a list of about two dozen different english translations of John 1:1. The list also included references to how that passage is translated in other languages.

In my head, I remember that Kerry Shirts or Bickmore provided the list. But I can't be sure.

Does anyone here have that list...or one similar to it?

Thanks,

Six

there are so many referances to differant bible translations its remarkable!

from my investigations the list never ends,,,possibly hundreds?

:P

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I'll see if I can find it on my old backup disk.

Haven't found the thread yet, but did find a reference to it. It's Roundtable thread so hopefully is still in the archives.

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Okay, it looks like that's a thread that disappeared before I got on the board and started saving stuff. I have stuff that goes back to April 01 and the note about the list is from 6/01 and says it's a while back.

It was a thread named John 1:1 and was started by Kevin Graham. Maybe he has a record of it?

Yes, I just reread the note and it says the list is in the opening post.

Sorry, I don't have anything better.

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Last night, I was reading the wiki article on the translation of John 1:1.

Eons ago (before the first ice age) a participant on the ZLMB message board did a post that included a list of about two dozen different english translations of John 1:1. The list also included references to how that passage is translated in other languages.

In my head, I remember that Kerry Shirts or Bickmore provided the list. But I can't be sure.

Does anyone here have that list...or one similar to it?

Thanks,

Six

What wiki article was this? Wikipedia? Or some other wiki? Fair-wiki?

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I used to be Bellomy6 at ZLMB. I am now Bsix.
I know, :P. I hope you find it. I googled "Kevin Graham" and "John 1:1" hoping Kevin had posted it somewhere, but nothing came up useful. Hope he still has it somewhere for you.
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Before we start worrying about various English translations, I think we should put the Greek on the table:

john1.png

Fat lot of help that is, its Greek to me!

:P

OH NO! I just noticed, it starts with Ev....

That's it, I just lost my testimony

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It may have been me - although if I did it, it would take me a while to find it. I used to have several discussions on it here, but they seemed to have vanished quite some time ago when the archives went.

I cringe not knowing the amount of good information that may have been lost.

This is off-topic from the thread but you made me think of what some other forums do to preserve some of the most useful threads.

Maybe MADB could start what is called a Knowledge Base with the most informative threads. Over time after a thread has run it's course, take these threads that meet certain quality standards and move or copy them to a special forum called a Knowledge Base(KB) forum or whatever. In those threads some of the non-relevant things can be deleted and also other threads of the same subject could be merged. If done right, it could be a wealth of concentrated information easy to find and can also be used to slow the number of redundant topics and direct new persons to that forum. It's up to the mods if they want to lock those KB threads and merge knew threads later or leave them open like an open canon of scripture.

Food for thought.

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Entire books could be (and probably have been) written on the meaning of the Greek term logos, which is far richer than the mere English noun word is able to represent. John's rough contemporary Philo of Alexandria was doing interesting things with it just a few years before the gospel was written.

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Six: I guess CKS's comment gets us right to the meat of the John 1:1 translation controversy.

In a funny way, CKS strikes to the heart of the issue by suggesting that Jehovah's Witnesses translate that passage based on an under-pinning theological bias. As a matter of fact, it could be fairly said that trinitarians translate that passage based on their under-pinning theological bias.

My impression is that it is almost impossible to translate that passage without being slave to the translator's theological bias. If you are a creedal trinitarian, you must render the translation that the "Word was God." If you don't the whole trinity theory is shot.

Those who believe in the divinity of Christ without accepting creedal trinity can still live with the trinitarian-biased translation...but are much more comfortable with the version of the translation that is rendered as "the Word as a God."

The debate is long and old. I was interested in all the translations into english that do not follow the trinitarian variant. It is a pretty impressive list. The Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only translators that render that passage in a way that is at odds with the trinitarian's skew.

Regards,

Six

Six,

You might do weel to read a book called "Jesus As God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus" by Murray J. Harris. It was recently recommended to me at this site and I have found it worth the while. The book explores all the NT references to Jesus as God - only 17 of them - and shows how they can be interpreted differently by a Trinitarian or an Arian. The author, who calls in question the Trinitarian interpretations of pretty much all of the verses he discusses, nevertheless stands by "The Word was God."

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You might do weel to read a book called "Jesus As God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus" by Murray J. Harris. It was recently recommended to me at this site and I have found it worth the while. The book explores all the NT references to Jesus as God - only 17 of them - and shows how they can be interpreted differently by a Trinitarian or an Arian. The author, who calls in question the Trinitarian interpretations of pretty much all of the verses he discusses, nevertheless stands by "The Word was God."

Six: If you accept the translation, "The Word was God" as an accurate translation, I can see that John 1:1 could be argued as supporting creedal trinitarianism. However, if the passage were translated, as it has been, as the Word being the same as God or as a God...then it no longer has merit in supporting trinitarianism.

Regards,

Six

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