How Can We Know When We Hear

[jwhitlock]

Okay, When Jesus said the Kingdom is at hand, the kingdom is within you.

Does that invoke a message of timing?

Or

Upon leaving the principles and doctrines of Jesus Christ, go unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance and faith toward God and the doctrines of baptism and the laying on of hands etc....

Go unto perfection.

Does God limit our growth? Does He say, you've lived by my principles and doctrines and have become perfect, but you need to die and then after awhile you can be like me?

Jesus said the things that I do ye shall do and More, to them that believe.

So belief seems to be the qualifier, not time.

Just simply making the point that we have to be careful what we claim to have in fulness in this life as opposed to what we will receive in fulness after this life. Though the Lord can do great things in our lives here, they do not compare to what we will receive after the resurrection. That applies to perfection, being glorious, eternal life, receiving the kingdom, etc.

Just being here in mortality places certain limits on how far we can go. It is not until after death that those limits are removed.

[Son]

Just simply making the point that we have to be careful what we claim to have in fulness in this life as opposed to what we will receive in fulness after this life. Though the Lord can do great things in our lives here, they do not compare to what we will receive after the resurrection. That applies to perfection, being glorious, eternal life, receiving the kingdom, etc.

Just being here in mortality places certain limits on how far we can go. It is not until after death that those limits are removed.

That is only if you believe death to be inevitable. The last enemy to be overcome is death.

We are to die once yes, but that can be to the self.

Jesus died for us, we must receive the fullness of what that really means.

And be born of the Spirit, Born of God. Where one is sinless, and able to pass by the path of the grave.

[Neighbor]

I'm always a little leery when someone says that Jesus only taught that we should love our neighbor, and I come across scriptures such as Luke 19:27, at the end of the parable of the nobleman, where it says:

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Not that this was what the Saints were commanded to do, but God certainly reserves the right to reassign lands to other peoples - such as what He did with the Israelites when the moved in from wandering for 40 years. Jesus certainly taught about the conflict that would come with the preaching of the gospel.

Before responding specifically to what the Saints were given, however, I'd need to know exactly what you were referencing when you say God granted the property and land of the Gentiles to be consecrated to the Mormons.

You also need to be careful in assuming that bad things always only happen to people who are wrong or sin or speak falsely in His name. Bad things happen to both the good and bad for a variety of reasons, and oftimes the wicked prosper - at least for now (see Mal 3:14-15).

Pratt, Proclamation of the Twelve Apostles, 2-3, 5-6, 8-9, 11-13.

[Paul Ray]

That is only if you believe death to be inevitable. The last enemy to be overcome is death.

We are to die once yes, but that can be to the self.

Jesus died for us, we must receive the fullness of what that really means.

And be born of the Spirit, Born of God. Where one is sinless, and able to pass by the path of the grave.

I think it might help to realize that we can only do what God will let us do, even in regards to exercising the power of God. We can't avoid our physical death unless God wants us to avoid our physical death, and only then we can do that by his power.

For example, say that you had overcome every sin in your life that you know of right now, and you no longer had any tendency to sin in any way, at least not in any way you were aware of it. And not only that, let's say that you had received the priesthood, which gave you the power of God.

Now, do you suppose you can do anything you want to do just because you want to do it?

What is it you would lack, if anything, that would allow you to have everything that our Father now has.

I can only think of one thing, personally, and that is his permission to do anything you want to do, which I believe he will give us when we come to the point where we only want to do what our Father really wants us to do.

So go ahead. I'd like to see you get translated.

edit: And btw, I am being totally serious. I would really like to see everyone get translated.

[Son]

I think it might help to realize that we can only do what God will let us do, even in regards to exercising the power of God. We can't avoid our physical death unless God wants us to avoid our physical death, and only then we can do that by his power.

For example, say that you had overcome every sin in your life that you know of right now, and you no longer had any tendency to sin in any way, at least not in any way you were aware of it. And not only that, let's say that you had received the priesthood, which gave you the power of God.

Now, do you suppose you can do anything you want to do just because you want to do it?

What is it you would lack, if anything, that would allow you to have everything that our Father now has.

I can only think of one thing, personally, and that is his permission to do anything you want to do, which I believe he will give us when we come to the point where we only want to do what our Father really wants us to do.

So go ahead. I'd like to see you get translated.

edit: And btw, I am being totally serious. I would really like to see everyone get translated.

Thank you, I do wish to be translated, I think scripture backs up the point that it is available to all that seek God first.

Jesus said I can do nothing but what I see the Father do. So although I understand your point, one who is one operates within the greater oneness. Let the force be with you.

Let there be light.

[Hammer]

Bump,

Son

Post killer apostite

What is apostite?

[Hammer]

Okay, When Jesus said the Kingdom is at hand, the kingdom is within you.

Does that invoke a message of timing?

Or

Upon leaving the principles and doctrines of Jesus Christ, go unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance and faith toward God and the doctrines of baptism and the laying on of hands etc....

Go unto perfection.

Does God limit our growth? Does He say, you've lived by my principles and doctrines and have become perfect, but you need to die and then after awhile you can be like me?

Jesus said the things that I do ye shall do and More, to them that believe.

So belief seems to be the qualifier, not time.

It is all about understanding which kingdom referred to here and there. You seem to believe there is only one meaning to 'kingdom of God'.

Glory is intelligence and the kingdom within us is that intelligence we are made up of, which we must work to increase through Christ.

However the kingdom which is to come is also us in the fulness=resurrection. It is also the time when all will bow before Christ and receive Him as the RULER of heaven and earth. This one is an event.

[Son]

It is all about understanding which kingdom referred to here and there. You seem to believe there is only one meaning to 'kingdom of God'.

Glory is intelligence and the kingdom within us is that intelligence we are made up of, which we must work to increase through Christ.

However the kingdom which is to come is also us in the fulness=resurrection. It is also the time when all will bow before Christ and receive Him as the RULER of heaven and earth. This one is an event.

Far off, or at hand. Those are the choices of seekers.

[Paul Ray]

I think scripture backs up the point that it (translation) is available to all that seek God first.

I don't see where you got that idea. There have been many, many, many prophets of God, and only a few of them are or have been translated... or at least we are told of only a few who have been. And the ones we know of were translated for a purpose, not simply because they all wanted to be.

And I don't see any reason for wanting to be translated. I think I will get to that place soon enough.

And I would rather stick around here to do as much as I can to care for my wife and children.

Jesus said I can do nothing but what I see the Father do.

What does that have to do with this issue??? You do realize that our Lord was NOT translated, don't you? I don't see any reason to cite our Lord as an example of translation, especially when it appears that our Father was never translated either.

So although I understand your point, one who is one operates within the greater oneness. Let the force be with you.

Let there be light.

Well then it appears you have an advantage over me. I can't understand what your point is, and I know I have lots of good light. I see no reason to think we should all strive to be translated, and I can't see why you would even want to be translated.

[Son]

I don't see where you got that idea. There have been many, many, many prophets of God, and only a few of them are or have been translated... or at least we are told of only a few who have been. And the ones we know of were translated for a purpose, not simply because they all wanted to be.

And I don't see any reason for wanting to be translated. I think I will get to that place soon enough.

And I would rather stick around here to do as much as I can to care for my wife and children.

What does that have to do with this issue??? You do realize that our Lord was NOT translated, don't you? I don't see any reason to cite our Lord as an example of translation, especially when it appears that our Father was never translated either.

Well then it appears you have an advantage over me. I can't understand what your point is, and I know I have lots of good light. I see no reason to think we should all strive to be translated, and I can't see why you would even want to be translated.

Christ was translated, on the mount of transfiguration, it is one and the same thing.

Translation is our graduation into godhood.

It is perfection, oneness, holiness.

Enoch was translated, and came back to his family, in fact his whole city, and they were all translated.

They can come and go as they desire, or as they are directed.

It is not lesser in anyway it is more, it is the divine nature that Peter spoke of.

It is all that I have is yours.

It is the things I do ye shall do and MORE, because I go unto the Father.

Jesus was able to lay His life down and take it up, only someone who's is translated can do this.

Finally it is the gift of pleasing God. Hebs. 11:5-6

[Paul Ray]

Christ was translated, on the mount of transfiguration, it is one and the same thing.

Christ was "transfigured" on the mount of "transfiguration". Translation refers to something else.

Translation is our graduation into godhood.

I'd like to know more about what you are referring to, specifically as "translation' and "godhood".

I am already a child of God and my goal is to be more like him, both now and in the future.

It is perfection, oneness, holiness.

I agree that I can have that right now, as I am, but some things will happen after my resurrection.

Enoch was translated, and came back to his family, in fact his whole city, and they were all translated.

Yes, this is what I was referring to as being "translated", and this was all before they were resurrected.

And a "translation" also happened to John, the apostle, after which he lived on the island of Patmos.

So what is it that you think happened? In what way can you, and I, be translated?

Do you think others would necessarily know if we had been?

They can come and go as they desire, or as they are directed.

Yes, as you or I can right now. Right?

What do you think it means to be translated, and how would you know if anyone had ever been?

It is not lesser in anyway it is more, it is the divine nature that Peter spoke of.

It is all that I have is yours.

It is the things I do ye shall do and MORE, because I go unto the Father.

Jesus was able to lay His life down and take it up, only someone who's is translated can do this.

Okay. So how would you know if anyone had ever done it?

Finally it is the gift of pleasing God. Hebs. 11:5-6

Heh, that's easy.

[Son]

Christ was "transfigured" on the mount of "transfiguration". Translation refers to something else.

I'd like to know more about what you are referring to, specifically as "translation' and "godhood".

It is one and the same.

I am already a child of God and my goal is to be more like him, both now and in the future.

I agree that I can have that right now, as I am, but some things will happen after my resurrection.

Yes, this is what I was referring to as being "translated", and this was all before they were resurrected.

I assume that you do not have the power of godhood, though if the word of God comes to you (direct Holy Spirit guidence), you are a son of God, and on the path to godhood.

1.Immortallity- (not dying physically)

2. The power of Christ- heal, raise the dead, walk on water, come and go into heavenly realms and return.

3. Glorified body

4.Have seen the face of God and Christ.

And a "translation" also happened to John, the apostle, after which he lived on the island of Patmos.

How do you know it was after? or on the Island?

So what is it that you think happened? In what way can you, and I, be translated?

The same way as Enoch. Please God, by living the word. Love, Praise and Gratitude are the keys to perfection.

Do you think others would necessarily know if we had been?

only those that are permitted to know.

Yes, as you or I can right now. Right?

Into heavenly realms, or as the wind. Not seen, at the speed of light, or faster, the speed of now.

What do you think it means to be translated, and how would you know if anyone had ever been?

Okay. So how would you know if anyone had ever done it?

Scripture mentions those that are translated. Odes of Solomon explains the virtues of one who is translated. Many are called few are chosen. Because of unbelief. It is available to all.

Heh, that's easy.

And His burden is LIGHT..........

If you would like to know more then pm me, and I can get you all the info you would need to understand and maybe even experience translation.

[Paul Ray]

It is one and the same.

What leads you to believe that?

I can see how they are similar, but I believe they are different.

Can you say or do anything to enlighten me?

I assume that you do not have the power of godhood, though if the word of God comes to you (direct Holy Spirit guidence), you are a son of God, and on the path to godhood.

Why would you assume that?

I have received the priesthood, which is the power of godliness.

What more can I do or say to convince you?

1.Immortallity- (not dying physically)

2. The power of Christ- heal, raise the dead, walk on water, come and go into heavenly realms and return.

3. Glorified body

4.Have seen the face of God and Christ.

What significance do you attach to the items in this list, and how are they related to each other.

You only made some statements and used some numbers.

I would like you to explain what you think "translation" is.

How do you know it was after? or on the Island?

First of all, you seem to think "translation" and "transfiguration" are the same thing, so let's review a little history, shall we.

Peter, James and John were transfigured on the "mount of transfiguration" along with Jesus, and after that John later lived on the island of Patmos. Or at least that is the way that I see it.

Later, Jesus blessed John so that he wouldn't die, as we mortals normally do, and then even later John then lived on Patmos.

I hope that helps you to see what I believe.

The same way as Enoch. Please God, by living the word. Love, Praise and Gratitude are the keys to perfection.

I was hoping you would either define what translation refers to or describe what would actually happen to us if we were to be translated.

If you would like to know more then pm me, and I can get you all the info you would need to understand and maybe even experience translation.

Okay. I would like to see what you are referring to.

[Son]

What leads you to believe that?

I can see how they are similar, but I believe they are different.

Can you say or do anything to enlighten me?

Why would you assume that?

I have received the priesthood, which is the power of godliness.

What more can I do or say to convince you?

What significance do you attach to the items in this list, and how are they related to each other.

You only made some statements and used some numbers.

I would like you to explain what you think "translation" is.

First of all, you seem to think "translation" and "transfiguration" are the same thing, so let's review a little history, shall we.

Peter, James and John were transfigured on the "mount of transfiguration" along with Jesus, and after that John later lived on the island of Patmos. Or at least that is the way that I see it.

Later, Jesus blessed John so that he wouldn't die, as we mortals normally do, and then even later John then lived on Patmos.

I hope that helps you to see what I believe.

I was hoping you would either define what translation refers to or describe what would actually happen to us if we were to be translated.

Okay. I would like to see what you are referring to.

"All that the Father has is yours"

To man God gave the priceless gift divine, the mind! "To each man was given a mind with which to think, to dream to fashion and to form the vision his heart holds forth, for man too is a creator- a God in the making. And for man's use God set the universe and all that it contains! The creative force of light is ever man's to use, even as it is God's. It is man's to command and to form into atoms as it is drawn into the pattern of his dreamings. For out of these infinitesimal rays of living, cosmic light, which fill the universe, are atoms formed.

Atoms are the foundations and the substance an the essence of all tangible, solid, material things. And each atom holds a living spark of God held lovingly enfolded within its embrace. "I am in and about and through all things." -God.

Within each atom is contained the love the intelligence and the power of God. Atoms are the building blocks of all that is visible.

Atoms, created from the rays of living light are gathered into form by thought, until reality becomes apparent to the most ordinary and dense of men as their lowered vision beholds only the dust.

And so to each man God gave a mind with which to think, to dream, to form the patterns of his inner musings, by the living force and energy of his own brooding. And those thoughts will take form, to flourish or to die, according to the attention with which one's garden of desire is nourished and sustained.

Such is the power of that divine "Tree of Good or Evil" which each man holds within the center of his being, which is his own Eden- his soul. Each man, by the selection of his thoughts, can bring forth an abundance of all that his thoughts embrace.

Until He is wrapped in the power of Christ and caught up to dwell with Him.

Man is what He thinks, not what He thinks he is, - James Allen "as a man thinketh"

[Neighbor]

So how do we know that the supreme attribute of God is intelligence? I've always considered His Holiness and Goodness pretty high on the list, but then when we see what has been said of His attributes and character, how can you say any one of them is less than another? What spirit told you it is intelligence? How do you know?

[Son]

So how do we know that the supreme attribute of God is intelligence? I've always considered His Holiness and Goodness pretty high on the list, but then when we see what has been said of His attributes and character, how can you say any one of them is less than another? What spirit told you it is intelligence? How do you know?

Not sure if this is directed to me or Hammer.

The supreme attribute I think is Love. Mind is Spirit or Spiritual in nature, it would take a mind to wield love effectively. So does Spirit (mind) come before Love? Good question.

Love being an attribute, Mind being consciousness, they are in harmony.

Let there be light. Spirit is light, intelligence, which is enfolded in love. They are one.

[jwhitlock]

So how do we know that the supreme attribute of God is intelligence? I've always considered His Holiness and Goodness pretty high on the list, but then when we see what has been said of His attributes and character, how can you say any one of them is less than another? What spirit told you it is intelligence? How do you know?

There's a saying that "knowledge is power". If you had all knowledge and the intelligence to use that knowledge, you'd have all power - and that's God.

Of course, that is also shaped by the other perfect attributes He has - but it may well be that intelligence is the foundation.

[Paul Ray]

There's a saying that "knowledge is power". If you had all knowledge and the intelligence to use that knowledge, you'd have all power - and that's God.

Of course, that is also shaped by the other perfect attributes He has - but it may well be that intelligence is the foundation.

I can see some reasonable reasons for believing that.

Love, from my perspective, is about trying to help people to enjoy all the good things, to bring joy.

To see those things requires intelligence, or light and truth, about how things are, were and will be.

The atonement was basically a rescue mission to try to help us enjoy the good life as God sees it.

[Neighbor]

A mother loves a baby before it knows the man or woman they will become, so I think love comes first:-)

[William the Conqueror]

Not sure if this is directed to me or Hammer.

The supreme attribute I think is Love. Mind is Spirit or Spiritual in nature, it would take a mind to wield love effectively. So does Spirit (mind) come before Love? Good question.

Love being an attribute, Mind being consciousness, they are in harmony.

Let there be light. Spirit is light, intelligence, which is enfolded in love. They are one.

"...so then faith, hope, and love remain-these three. But the greatest of these is Love..." St. Paul to the Corinthians -first letter.

[Neighbor]

"...so then faith, hope, and love remain-these three. But the greatest of these is Love..." St. Paul to the Corinthians -first letter.

Great point William. I am compelled to agree!:-)

[Selah]

Hey folks!! Hope everyone is having a good day! This is just me being a dork again and seeing if I can't get this thread to rreach 900 posts. This is why I am writing...to add another post!

[Son]

Hey folks!! Hope everyone is having a good day! This is just me being a dork again and seeing if I can't get this thread to rreach 900 posts. This is why I am writing...to add another post!

With all the in depth posts, thats the best you can do? Not anything about being led by God, overcoming weaknesses, definitions of Faith, love or hope?

Great point William. I am compelled to agree!:-)

That was a point? or a observation of scripture?

[Selah]

Everyone knows I have never been in this particular discussion for the in depth-ness of it. I agree that it has been a very good thread. I do read it. But on roughly page 30 It kind of became a "thing" for a while to see if wer could get the number of posts up to 600 because I have never seen a thread go that high. It's a kind of joke really. (The whole how many aspect of it. Not the thread in general.)

[Son]

Everyone knows I have never been in this particular discussion for the in depth-ness of it. I agree that it has been a very good thread. I do read it. But on roughly page 30 It kind of became a "thing" for a while to see if wer could get the number of posts up to 600 because I have never seen a thread go that high. It's a kind of joke really. (The whole how many aspect of it. Not the thread in general.)

Ah ha! You fell for it.............I am #900. Take that record posters.