Why Doesn't God Heal Amputees?

[Mighty Curelom]

If asking God to regenerate an amputated limb is seeking a sign, then so is asking God to cure Uncle Pete's prostate cancer. There is no qualitative difference between the two. The sign seeking defense is invalid; if God refused to cure physical conditions on the basis of the "sign seeking" clause, then nobody would ever be healed. The fact that healings attributed to God can only occur in areas where we lack sufficient knowledge to determine the direct cause of recovery indicates God is not involved in said recoveries.

[SleepingWillow]

Pfff! Obviously.

Doctors will tell you that miracles aren't always events that could happen without a miracle.

This post wins the "most egregious misuse of smileys" award.

[Hammer]

This post wins the "most egregious misuse of smileys" award.

Oh they are giving out awards now?

[Hammer]

Willow,

The following is from the Church's Beta website under Gospel Topics- Signs :

You have abandoned your faith, relying on the wisdom and logic of men to sustain you- and as a result both miracles and the peace that comes with the Holy Spirit are absent from your life.

In seeking to sustain your apostasy, and perhaps to persuade others to join you, you have brought up this topic (for a second time).

Answer a few questions for me, honestly, if you please:

Do you really want an answer or is this simply your way of exposing what you consider the "aburdities of belief"?

If you received a satisfactory answer, would it lead you back to the Church, or would you do as so many others and simply rationalize it away?

You have implied repeatedly that you are seeking for truth and understanding- that you really want to know the way things are. Can you accept (short of a life-altering miracle) that there really is a God and that his son sacrificed himself for you?

If they were sincerely searching for truth they would go to the source of ALL truth. But they are not seeking truth, they are seeking conflict.

[Sethbag]

You know that accusation to be false.

That's why you made it.

More vintage Pahoran. Dude, you are so predictable sometimes. Like Pavlov's dog, someone rings a bell, and you perform.

Everyone who ever asks for a sign always demands something they suppose is impossible, because they have absolutely no intention of being shown up.

Au contraire. With God, all things are possible, or so we're told. I do not believe that healing an amputated limb is impossible, if there is in fact a God, and he's all that we say he is. I expect that if he exists, he could certainly heal an amputated limb. Jesus is recorded in the Bible as saying if we have faith like a grain of mustard seed, we can move mountains. Jesus walked on water. He turned water into wine. He raised at least a couple of people from the dead.

I don't think this is impossible for a God who actually exists. And if he does exist, then I expect it to happen from time to time, based on the faith of those so healed. That it doesn't seem to happen does not fill me with joy, as you suppose it must, but with sadness, for I see that as one more evidence (not proof) that God likely does not exist. I'd rather that God existed than that he doesn't, but I don't get to choose reality - I can only choose how I respond to it.

The sneering, mocking tone of the OP and the poll options make it clear that Mister Willow is merely amusing himself at our expense. My summation, therefore, is a valid conclusion on the evidence.

And all this coming from the universally acclaimed Master of Sneering and Mocking. Pahoran, you are without equal. Hammer tries pathetically but just can't hold a candle to you, and Kemala showed up here briefly attempting to emulate your style, and just couldn't quite pull it off. You truly are one of a kind. You're special.

And he deliberately chose a spectacular, ostentatious, showy miracle.

Let's see, Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead wasn't spectacular, ostentatious, or showy, but restoring someone's missing arm is? Walking on water, turning water into wine, directing Peter to haul in a particular fish and pull a piece of money from its mouth, and it happens, aren't showy, spectacular miracles? For my part, I think Sleeping Willow is asking for references for miracles of a kind one would expect to see given the examples of the Bible and the promise of them based on faith as small as a mustard seed. That we don't see the restoration of severed limbs is not to be blamed on SleepingWillow. He's the messenger here - don't shoot him.

Here is another rule of thumb: if such miracles did happen, even under uncontrolled controversial circumstances, the sign seekers would deny them until such time as they were forced to accept them, and then they would immediately find some means to explain them away.

I know you like to fantasize about non-believers and the spectacular ways in which they fight against the obvious truth, but you are mistaken about this, as ever. Take a faithful soldier who comes home from Iraq with his leg blown off. He asks, in faith, for a priesthood blessing and for his leg to be restored. The blessing is pronounced, and his leg is restored. I can assure you that I will take this occurrence very, very seriously. I'm not supporting SleepingWillow's side here because I don't think it's possible for a limb to be replaced by God. I'm supporting it because I've never yet seen credible evidence that this has in fact occurred. It remains in the realm of "Yeah he could if he wanted to; he just doesn't want to."

IOW, it's only because these kinds of things don't happen that you think they are such a "gotcha." If they did happen, you'd find some way to brush them under the carpet, while issuing similar sign seeking questions about something else.

I'm an unbeliever because I've concluded that God doesn't exist, and never visited Joseph Smith, etc. I'm not an unbeliever because I wish to be one, or because I want God not to exist, or not to have visited Joseph Smith. Contrary to your simplistic view of unbelievers, I personally would rejoice if God in fact existed, and things like God healing a person so that their leg or arm came back fully functional would definitely sway me in the direction of belief.

I am not asking for a sign and basking in the joy of the sign not being given. I'm observing that over time, independently of me and whatever I may have asked for or not, nobody else seems to have asked in faith for an amputated limb to be healed and actually had that come to pass. It's an observation, not a demand and subsequent refusal by God to "cave in to the sign seekers".

For example, you dismiss miraculous cancer cures with a label, "spontaneous remission." If severed limbs were miraculously restored, you'd likewise dismiss them with a similar label, "spontaneous regeneration."

Well we certainly have your example of dismissing the lack of any evidence supporting God restoring amputated limbs and coming up with (to you) clever-seeming rationalizations for that observed fact. I guess it takes one to know one?

[SleepingWillow]

If they were sincerely searching for truth they would go to the source of ALL truth. But they are not seeking truth, they are seeking conflict.

I'm still looking for that source.

[Doctor Steuss]

I'm still looking for that source.

And He'll never stop searching for you...

[Hammer]

And all this coming from the universally acclaimed Master of Sneering and Mocking. Pahoran, you are without equal. Hammer tries pathetically but just can't hold a candle to you, and Kemala showed up here briefly attempting to emulate your style, and just couldn't quite pull it off. You truly are one of a kind. You're special. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Grow up and fly right. Oh, I forgot your wings were amputated and without belief in God they will not be returned.

[Sethbag]

Take notes, Grasshopper, for as sure as there are carts to horses, Pahoran will be along soon and respond to my post in the true style you seek to affect but just cannot seem to pull it off. My wings were amputated? Muahahahahaha! Seriously man, you try to be a total hard case like Pahoran but all you succeed in doing is making me laugh.

[Hammer]

Take notes, Grasshopper, for as sure as there are carts to horses, Pahoran will be along soon and respond to my post in the true style you seek to affect but just cannot seem to pull it off. My wings were amputated? Muahahahahaha! Seriously man, you try to be a total hard case like Pahoran but all you succeed in doing is making me laugh.

Great! My true ambition in life was to be a stand up comic. Guess I succeeded. Seriously man if you want hard case, I can do the job.

I'm first waiting for you to pluck those nasty nose hairs and wipe that simpleton smirk off your chubby little face.

Apparently there isn't an amputee who has the faith as a grain of mustard seed who really wants his limb back. Simple as that gwassoppa sqosher.

[Sethbag]

Hey, not bad! Keep it up man, you'll make it. You may just have that Right Stuff yet!

[Tchild2]

Apparently there isn't an amputee who has the faith as a grain of mustard seed who really wants his limb back. Simple as that gwassoppa sqosher.

Now that is classic mormon speak. Blame the lack of a miracle on the lack of faith and on the person themselves. Hammer, you would be a real joy as a guest speaker at the local amputee support group meeting.

[Hammer]

Now that is classic mormon speak. Blame the lack of a miracle on the lack of faith and on the person themselves. Hammer, you would be a real joy as a guest speaker at the local amputee support group meeting.

What??? They want lies?

[Tarski]

Now that is classic mormon speak. Blame the lack of a miracle on the lack of faith and on the person themselves. Hammer, you would be a real joy as a guest speaker at the local amputee support group meeting.

On the other hand, apparently people with cancer and other hidden diseases seem to quite often have plenty of faith.

What??? They want lies?

That they don't have faith enough IS the lie. Why should cancer patients be healed?

[Hammer]

On the other hand, apparently people with cancer and other hidden diseases seem to quite often have plenty of faith.

That they don't have faith enough IS the lie. Why should cancer patients be healed?

Lets get this on track--- Do these people who are so full of faith ask the Lord what HIS WILL FOR THEM IS? I have known an amputee. He died about two years ago after having shot his leg off and lived without it for nearly 45 years. He would talk about his resurrection when he would again have his leg, but I never ever heard him ask for a blessing or miracle to have it back.

[Son]

When Jesus was betrayed, the Roman soldiers came for him by night.

Peter smote (amputated) the ear off of one of the soldiers and Jesus put it back on.

There are no limits to God. Man limits the use of His power due to sin and unbelief.

Driving out certain demons requires prayer and fasting, maybe the restoration of limbs is requiring a selfless sacrafice as well.

[Hammer]

When Jesus was betrayed, the Roman soldiers came for him by night.

Peter smote (amputated) the ear off of one of the soldiers and Jesus put it back on.

There are no limits to God. Man limits the use of His power due to sin and unbelief.

Driving out certain demons requires prayer and fasting, maybe the restoration of limbs is requiring a selfless sacrafice as well.

With this I agree.

[Dan Vogel]

God gives us amputees so we can learn to have compassion. It is not enough to just hold doors open for old ladies.

For God's sake let it be you who teaches me, and not the other way around.

[Deborah]

Healing isn't always physical. More often it is our spirits which are healed in the face of otherwise seemingly insurmountable odds. God isn't going to take away every infirmity in this life. This life is a time of testing. Very often the people with the disabilities turn those disabilities into strengths and become not only stronger characterwise but become inspirations to others. So what is to be gained by such a mocking question as to why God doesn't heal amputees when there is ample evidence he does, but not in the ways the mocker is looking for.

Yes God does heal, but he doesn't appease mockers.

[SleepingWillow]

Healing isn't always physical. More often it is our spirits which are healed in the face of otherwise seemingly insurmountable odds. God isn't going to take away every infirmity in this life. This life is a time of testing. Very often the people with the disabilities turn those disabilities into strengths and become not only stronger characterwise but become inspirations to others. So what is to be gained by such a mocking question as to why God doesn't heal amputees when there is ample evidence he does, but not in the ways the mocker is looking for.

Yes God does heal, but he doesn't appease mockers.

So basically, it's my fault that amputees aren't healed?

[structurecop]

So basically, it's my fault that amputees aren't healed?

Yeah, man, cause you haven't caught the vision... we gotta lift each other up, ya know, be in harmony and all our woes will disappear, man. We gotta rise above this physical existence, dude.

[Hammer]

So basically, it's my fault that amputees aren't healed?

Very estute.

[awyatt]

Allen, do you believe that God heals some amputees? I'm not asking whether he heals all amputees that ask for it (which he obviously doesn't); I'm just asking whether you think he heals some. If your answer is yes, then how do we account for the fact that none of these cases have been documented? If your answer is no, then why does God heal other infirmities but not this one?

But my beliefs don't matter, do they? Sleeping Willow asked why God doesn't heal them, which presumes that he doesn't. In other words, the question is concerning God's behavior, not my belief in what God may or may not do or may or may not have done.

-Allen

PS: Do you presume that we have a complete account of all of God's healings? If no, then why presume that he hasn't healed amputees at one time or another?

So you're saying God can behave however He wants?

Of course. Are you saying that God cannot behave how He wants?

-Allen

[awyatt]

If asking God to regenerate an amputated limb is seeking a sign, then so is asking God to cure Uncle Pete's prostate cancer. There is no qualitative difference between the two. The sign seeking defense is invalid; if God refused to cure physical conditions on the basis of the "sign seeking" clause, then nobody would ever be healed. The fact that healings attributed to God can only occur in areas where we lack sufficient knowledge to determine the direct cause of recovery indicates God is not involved in said recoveries.

This is a strawman. The "sign seeking" isn't in the asking, but in the insisting that God doesn't exist if He doesn't act when we ask. If I said "Please heal Uncle Pete so that I can know you exist," that is seeking a sign. If I say "Please heal Uncle Pete, but Thy will be done," that is not sign seeking.

-Allen

[SleepingWillow]

Of course. Are you saying that God cannot behave how He wants?

-Allen

So God could be evil?