Why Doesn't God Heal Amputees?

[structurecop]

Like I said... Put up or shut up. Other wise... to all us here you're nothing but a little skate head.

What's a skate head?

[SleepingWillow]

Why so... it could be publish in the National Inquirer and you could milk the media for every thing they've got? Maybe sell a little snake oil along the way?

Like I said... Put up or shut up. Other wise... to all us here you're nothing but a little skate head.

Hey, knock it off with the insults.

[structurecop]

If first-person accounts constitute proof, then you must also believe in alien visitations, Virgin Mary sightings, and haunted houses. Do you?

I believe in haunted houses. My girlfriend lives in one. And I think there is plenty of evidence for alien visitations.

[Zakuska]

No dice. They rely on first-hand accounts of ordinary things (crimes happen all the time and are often caught on video) in corroboration with circumstantial evidence. But if a witness decided to be extraordinary, for example claiming in court they had a vision wherein they were told who the guilty person was, it would probably be completely stricken from the record.

Videos you want Videos? Just watch the spanish channel. The have lots and lots of videos. UFOS, Haunted houses. All kinds of things. Videos can be faked. Just like scanned dcouments sent via PM.

RE. Insults... Sure thing boss.

Could you please tone done the mockery?

It sure would be nice to have a document though.

Yah know for some one who claims he releys only on "Impiracle evidence" you sure are lacking in the evidence department. It figures.... people can talk smack but rarely got the guts to back it up.

[selek]

Wait! Wait. What about my true story? I broke my finger and by the time I got it X-rayed later there was no evidence of a break. There were witnesses to my break too. I did it lifting weights and I wasn't alone.

Even the nurse who first saw me in the ER said it was "definitely broken". So how did it get fixed without a prayer or anything and me an atheist?

Eyewitness evidence as good as what was given here! Yet ignored.

Answer: It was never broken.

However, what with the nurse saying so and me being sure it was broken I could have thought it a proven miracle---except that I am appropriately skeptical instead of a believing mystery monger.

You, like Willow, are not credible as witnesses to a miracle for the very reasons you outlined.

As I (and many others) have pointed before, miracles are not performed to satisfy the appetites of men- but in response to faith and trust in the Lord.

To understand the things of God, especially miracles, you must be receptive to things from God and the witness of the Holy Spirit.

Your cynicism and antagonism have disqualified you.

[Zakuska]

What's a skate head?

Skatters usually wear baggy pants down to their knees and skate board every where they go, they usually end up snow boarding and the like. Love to talk smak. But rarley can back up what they say. With such things as say... documentation.

PS. SleepingWillow... FYI never ask for something you are unwilling to give yourself.

[SleepingWillow]

Yah know for some one who claims he releys only on "Impiracle evidence" you sure are lacking in the evidence department. It figures.... people can talk smack but rarely got the guts to back it up.

What are you talking about? Seriously, you're going off the deep end here, insulting me, hounding me when I've already conceded I don't have evidence for what my experience with the paramedics nor is it important or crucial to my overall argument, nor would this evidence even be expected. Go away.

PS. SleepingWillow... FYI never ask for something you are unwilling to give yourself.

You're equating apples and elephants.

[awyatt]

...nor is it important or crucial to my overall argument...

Glad to see that you've come clean about making an argument. Here's the original post wording, where you asked a question without any indication that you were really making an argument:

So my question to you is: Why doesn't God heal amputees?

-Allen

[Zakuska]

What are you talking about? Seriously, you're going off the deep end here, insulting me, hounding me when I've already conceded I don't have evidence for what my experience with the paramedics nor is it important or crucial to my overall argument, nor would this evidence even be expected. Go away.

You're equating apples and elephants.

Sure it is... it goes to credibility of the antagonizer.

You are the one mocking. Im calling for documentation and you are unwilling to provide. All though it is well within your means to do so. You are calling for imperical evidence of the miracle of hammers wife. Perhaps hammer would be willing to provide a parmedics report?

But then usuaully the story goes. The skate head... er atheiest finds other ways of mocking and denying whats right before them.

I think I leave the thread and cool down for a while.

[SleepingWillow]

You, like Willow, are not credible as witnesses to a miracle for the very reasons you outlined.

As I (and many others) have pointed before, miracles are not performed to satisfy the appetites of men- but in response to faith and trust in the Lord.

Sure, they're all that, but how come they're never documented? How come God was to let Jesus perform miracles in front of crowds of people (including unbelievers) but suddenly today that never, ever seems to happen? Is it mine and Tarski's fault that miracles don't seem to happen anymore?

Noggin brought up a very good point about x-rays of that foot. If that actually happened, there would be proof of it in the x-rays and it certainly wouldn't remain something hidden or unreported except by Hammer.

[Mordecai]

My thinking is along the same lines with Mordecai. How would one heal an amputee exactly? One might expect that a new arm would just *poof* into existence upon command, but I don't believe that it works that way. Keep in mind that we are formed from preexisting elements, not created ex-nihilo.... In my opinion it comes down to the fact that we don't know how to do it. The method hasn't been revealed to us.... What I expect to see is that science will start to provide the way to regrow limbs following natural laws. Then once the process is formalized we'll be back to the current situation where miraculous progress will following healing yet there will be no way to objectively state that the healing did not happen by luck, it'll still take faith to believe.

We must also remember that some suffering is meant to be an opportunity for glorifying God. In the case of the blind man, God was glorified as Jesus healed him. There is a story of a couple Mormons in Canada who discovered something that will help people profoundly, particularly families, and is in double-blind study at the University of Calgary. One of them said that as his friend theorized on it, he felt a tremendous peace come over him. This will be the greatest contribution to secular society Mormons have ever made. This will glorify God and this remedy is the best of its kind, doing something previously thought impossible. I will post on this, when the double-blind study comes out.

[SleepingWillow]

Glad to see that you've come clean about making an argument. Here's the original post wording, where you asked a question without any indication that you were really making an argument:

Where did I ever imply I didn't have an argument?

[Hammer]

Wait! Wait. What about my true story? I broke my finger and by the time I got it X-rayed later there was no evidence of a break. There were witnesses to my break too. I did it lifting weights and I wasn't alone.

Even the nurse who first saw me in the ER said it was "definitely broken". So how did it get fixed without a prayer or anything and me an atheist?

Eyewitness evidence as good as what was given here! Yet ignored.

Answer: It was never broken.

However, what with the nurse saying so and me being sure it was broken I could have thought it a proven miracle---except that I am appropriately skeptical instead of a believing mystery monger.

Liers always think everyone else is liers too.

[SleepingWillow]

Liers always think everyone else is liers too.

Are you calling Tarski a liar?

[Mordecai]

Hmmm - well - if there's some practical problem with restoring limbs, I'd be very wary of holding out too much hope of this 'resurrection' thing you guys are looking forward to...!

I think the Father will be directly involved with the resurrection. During mortal life, the Father, who was responsible for the spiritual creation and thus plays an integral role in creation, as opposed to healing, is currently not present and not playing an active role (at least not normally). He works through his Son who plays a DIFFERENT role, not one of creating a body by himsef. I do believe it is a technical problem, personally, due to the nature of creation as opposed to healing.

[SleepingWillow]

All though it is well within your means to do so. You are calling for imperical evidence of the miracle of hammers wife.

Ah, now your attacks make sense. It was based on a misunderstanding that I was calling for evidence of Hammer's wife with the broken bones... well, that's not true. I was certainly not calling for empirical evidence of this. I think most of us believed Hammer given there was a rather mundane and obvious explanation for the event and I provided a story that corroborated Hammer's story.

As far as empirical evidence, it was called for in the case of the magically healed foot which was crushed and mended itself in front of multiple witnesses presumbly after it had been x-rayed and prepped for surgery.

[Hammer]

Hammer's miracle cannot be verified. That's fine. Why is it that miracles can't ever be verified?

And Charity, nice scripture. But there isn't any point fearing an entity that doesn't exist, ya know? That fearmongering works only in the pews.

Noggin

also, I need to brush up on board ettiquette. I got rather hot there on the last page. Hammer, I apologize for calling you a liar. I could have said that I flat out did not in any way shape or form believe your accounting. I did not have to come out and call you a liar. I still don't believe you.

My accounts of miracles can be verified. The Island people have come to the main land now, I have even had the young man (born deaf and blind whose parents gave into my hands to give a name and a blessing and btw sight and hearing) come through the veil when I was a veil worker and he saw my name tag and asked if I was the man who gave him his sight and hearing when a baby. We had a very nice visit that evening recounting the story he had been raised with.

I am sure if I spend some time I could find these people. They are probably all members of the Tongan ward here in the Valley. I will start to inquire for you all. Can't guarantee instantaneous results though.

[Hammer]

Ah, now your attacks make sense. It was based on a misunderstanding that I was calling for evidence of Hammer's wife with the broken bones... well, that's not true. I was certainly not calling for empirical evidence of this. I think most of us believed Hammer given there was a rather mundane and obvious explanation for the event and I provided a story that corroborated Hammer's story.

As far as empirical evidence, it was called for in the case of the magically healed foot which was crushed and mended itself in front of multiple witnesses presumbly after it had been x-rayed and prepped for surgery.

LOL You know, it is you who are missing out on all the great things available through unshakable faith in Christ. Not me. I have all the miracles I need and more. I have the knowledge increasing and my faith increasing, and you sit there with all of your NOTHING and jeer. Fine. It doesn't take it away from me. It takes it away from you.

[Zakuska]

Sorry for the "attacks". I'll leave the thread for now.

[SleepingWillow]

My accounts of miracles can be verified. The Island people have come to the main land now, I have even had the young man (born deaf and blind whose parents gave into my hands to give a name and a blessing and btw sight and hearing) come through the veil when I was a veil worker and he saw my name tag and asked if I was the man who gave him his sight and hearing when a baby. We had a very nice visit that evening recounting the story he had been raised with.

I am sure if I spend some time I could find these people. They are probably all members of the Tongan ward here in the Valley. I will start to inquire for you all. Can't guarantee instantaneous results though.

This begs the question, since miracles are apparently happening all the time, how come they don't happen to amputees?

LOL You know, it is you who are missing out on all the great things available through unshakable faith in Christ. Not me. I have all the miracles I need and more. I have the knowledge increasing and my faith increasing, and you sit there with all of your NOTHING and jeer. Fine. It doesn't take it away from me. It takes it away from you.

My NOTHING? Not true. I don't have to spend Sunday at Church.

[Hammer]

This begs the question, since miracles are apparently happening all the time, how come they don't happen to amputees?

My NOTHING? Not true. I don't have to spend Sunday at Church.

Because we have to suffer the consequences of action and reaction. Besides, if one was healed, you would ask why not all. And you would be just as knot headed about it as you are being about this.

Going to church and not gaining but decreasing in intelligence isn't doing you much good is it? I mean taking the sacrement unworthily is really having a fatal effect on your understanding causing you to be come blind. And it is hardening your heart.

[selek]

This begs the question, since miracles are apparently happening all the time, how come they don't happen to amputees?

Actually, no YOUR statement begs the question- you have yet to prove that miracles don't happen to amputees.

A lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. You may call it an argument from silence, but you have yet to establish the very problem you are attempting to decry.

My NOTHING? Not true. I don't have to spend Sunday at Church.

Perhaps not- but if we're right, you'll have to make up that time someplace a lot less pleasant than an LDS wardhouse.

[Zakuska]

Begs a question as well. Why would we expect them to? If we look at the documented evidence that we do have, I know of only one scriptural reference to an appendage being reattached, an ear. Many to "severed arms and appendages. Several to broken bent bones being made straight.

So why would you expect this to happen now if its never happend previously?

I wonder if all those lepers who where healed where healed whole with all of their digits etc.?

[Hammer]

Actually, no YOUR statement begs the question- you have yet to prove that miracles don't happen to amputees.

A lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. You may call it an argument from silence, but you have yet to establish the very problem you are attempting to decry.

Perhaps not- but if we're right, you'll have to make up that time someplace a lot less pleasant than an LDS wardhouse.

Maybe we should put out a mass mailing to all amputees and or a notice in all newspapers. No no no, I've got it, we need to get some college to put up a grant for researching this very thing -- then we will have worldly proof-- but then I have seen even this kind of proof rejected by those who do not want to believe.

So-- let them stew in their own miraculousless world.

[SleepingWillow]

Actually, no YOUR statement begs the question- you have yet to prove that miracles don't happen to amputees.

Actually that was one of the options--they do happen, they just never happen in a manner science can observe, which leads to another question, how come they never happen in a manner that science can observe?

Perhaps not- but if we're right, you'll have to make up that time someplace a lot less pleasant than an LDS wardhouse.

A scout camping trip?

I wonder if all those lepers who where healed where healed whole with all of the digits etc.?

I've always wondered that too.