urroner Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Does God have substance?The people who say God is everywhere, are they mistaken? Link to comment
johnny Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 urroner,Does God have substance?For this kind of discussion, it helps me to understand what you mean.What do you mean by "substance"?Do you mean "essence" ... each of the persons is the divine substance, essence or nature.The Webster dictionary defines:Substance -- essential nature, a fundamental or characteristic part or quality; ESSENCE as the properties or attributes by means of which something can be placed in its proper class or identified as being what it is. Link to comment
urroner Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 For the sake of this discussion, can we agree with the Early Church Fathers who said God had substance, whether it is material or immaterial substance?I realize that things can exist without material substance, for instance an idea can exist, but isn't material. Link to comment
johnny Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Paul Ray,can we agree with the Early Church Fathers who said God had substance, whether it is material or immaterial substance?Clement of Alexandria talks about substance(Clement of Alexandria: Miscellanies 5:12 [A.D. 208])."The first substance is everything which subsists by itself, as a stone is called a substance. The second is a substance capable of increase, as a plant grows and decays. The third is animated and sentient substance, as animal, horse. The fourth is animate, sentient, rational substance, as man. Wherefore each one of us is made as consisting of all, having an immaterial soul and a mind, which is the image of God" (Fragment from On Providence [A.D. 200]). ... "Being is in God. God is divine being, eternal and without beginning, incorporeal and illimitable, and the cause of what exists. Being is that which wholly subsists. Nature is the truth of things, or the inner reality of them. According to others, it is the production of what has come to existence; and according to others, again, it is the providence of God, causing the being, and the manner of being, in the things which are produced" (ibid.). ... "What is God? â??God,â?? as the Lord says, â??is a spirit.â?? Now spirit is properly substance, incorporeal, and uncircumscribed. And that is incorporeal which does not consist of a body, or whose existence is not according to breadth, length, and depth. And that is uncircumscribed which has no place, which is wholly in all, and in each entire, and the same in itself" (ibid.). ... "No one can rightly express him wholly. For on account of his greatness he is ranked as the All, and is the Father of the universe. Nor are any parts to be predicated of him. For the One is indivisible; wherefore also it is infinite, not considered with reference to inscrutability, but with reference to its being without dimensions, and not having a limit. And therefore it is without form" Link to comment
urroner Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Can we agree that God exists? Link to comment
johnny Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 urroner,Can we agree that God exists?The discussion has been fun but I think it is really getting away from the main topic ... Link to comment
urroner Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 urroner,Can we agree that God exists?The discussion has been fun but I think it is really getting away from the main topic ...Agree, I still have a ton of work to do before going home tonight. Night. Link to comment
Teancum Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Teancum,Creation out of nothing came to be because God was too "weak" if he used pre-existing matter or organized chaos to make the universe. It was not that God was too "weak", it was God needs no pre-existent thing to create. Creation out of nothing came from Holy Scripture. Of course the earliest Christians and the Israelites never had such a notion.Clearly the earliest Christians taught creation out of nothing (see links below):http://www.staycatholic.com/ecf_creation_out_of_nothing.htmhttp://www.cin.org/users/jgallegos/exnihilo.htmNo. The Israelites who wrote the creation account did not believe in creation out of nothing. They believed in creation out of chaos. Creation out of nothing is an apostate interpretation of the Bible.Teancum Link to comment
johnny Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Teancum,Creation out of nothing is an apostate interpretation of the Bible.Explain how it is a "apostate interpretation of the Bible"?Genesis reveals ...Gen.1[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.Scripture bears witness to faith in creation "out of nothing" [2 Macc 7:28] :2Mac.7[28] I beseech thee, my son, look upon the heaven and the earth, and all that is therein, and consider that God made them of things that were not; and so was mankind made likewise. Link to comment
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