What if polygamy was never practiced?

[Garden Girl]

These last few comments are somewhat off the original topic, but since several have talked about Brigham preaching from the pulpit about things as mundane as dress color... let's just see a few of his statements in general from his "Discourses"... For the times, he was quite forward-thinking in regard to women/education...

"Not only does the religion of Jesus Christ make the people acquainted with the things of God and develop within them moral excellence and purity, but it holds out every inducement for them to increase in knowledge and intelligence in every branch of mechanism, or in the arts and sciences, for all wisdom and all the arts and sciences in the world are from God, and are designed for the good of his people." DBY 247

Every accomplishment, every polished grace, every useful attainment in mathematics, music, and in all science and art belongs to the Saints, and they should avail themselves as expeditiously as possible of the wealth of knowledge the sciences offer to EVERY diligent and persevering scholar. (DBY 252)

And one more... "As I have OFTEN told my sisters in the Female Relief Societies, we have sisters here who, if they had the privilege of studying, would make just as good mathematicians or accountants as any man; and we think they ought to have the privilege to study these branches of knowledge that they may develop the powers with which they are endowed. WE BELIEVE THAT WOMEN ARE USEFUL NOT ONLY TO SWEEP HOUSES, WASH DISHES, MAKE BEDS, AND RAISE BABIES, but that they should stand behind the counter, study law and physic (medicine), or become good bookkeepeers and be able to do the business in any counting house, and this to enlarge their sphere in usefulness for the benefit of society at large. DBY 216-17. GG

[juliann]

Oh please. Brigham Young regulary scolded the enlightened polygamous wives from the tabernacle pulpit about everything from bickering to the colors of their dresses. The colors of their dresses!

You are really going to work hard to not have to acknowledge what was happening that was very atypical of the times. Something tells me that you will do the necessary work. Again...another instance of the defenders of dead and dumb Mormon women who want them back in their 19th century place.

Utah and Wyoming also had the first elected women officials....I believe Utah had an entire city council of women. The only way to get around the fact that these women could vote in or out whatever they wanted is to make them...dumb. And we have so many gathered and ready for the task. blech

[Baeth_Ku]

If polygamy had never been revealed . . .

Joseph Smith would have lived longer.

Utah would have become a state more quickly.

And, we would basically be Protestants with a couple of extra books of scripture.

Just my guesses.

[DH]

That's an interesting question! It's hard to tell what effect it would have on our membership. Although various anti-Mormons still make a big fuss about polygamy, the impression I get is that the average Joe regards the whole issue, if he thinks about it at all, with a touch of good-natured humor. Maybe today's unfortunately tolerant attitudes towards illicit sex has something to do with it, but I get the impression that if the topic of polygamy comes up in conversation, the non-Mormon is less likely to be shocked than to joke around about it. He'd probably be less concerned about polygamy than with our demand that he either marry his girlfriend or stop having sex with her!

The absence of the polygamy issue would have little effect on the antis--they have plenty of other accusations against us, and wouldn't be convinced otherwise.

As far as how we would look at our early prophets, I personally have no problem with the early prophets who practiced or condoned polygamy any more than I have a problem with people like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who also had multiple wives. I'm not convinced polygamy is the ideal situation for everyone, but if it were utterly wrong, I have a hard time believing the Lord would have allowed His chosen servants to engage in the practice. Polygamy is a biblical practice--the Book of Mormon actually prohibits it. The way I see it is polygamy is more likely to be the exception, not the rule, but not necessarily an evil exception.

Daniel

[William James]

If the church had never practiced polygamy, it would have a great deal more credibility in the eyes of many non-members. I can speculate as to some other effects it might have had if the church had never practiced polygamy. Joseph Smith would never have had the motivation to preach the doctrine of eternal marriage. I believe that he "revealed" that doctrine of eternal marriage alongside polygamy so that the women in the church could have some sugar to sweeten the pill they would have to swallow. True, they might have to share a husband with another man, but at least they could feel assured that their husband would not leave them and would be bound to stay with them for eternity based upon a solemn covenant. By romanticizing the concept of polygamy in that fashion, women were more easily lured into accepting the doctrine. Likewise, I believe that many men who decided to practice polygamy loved the doctrine because it removed the guilty conscience they might otherwise feel for desiring sexual relations with multiple women.

To be honest, in principle, I do not object to the idea of polygamy, or polyandry, so long as each is practiced within wholly consensual, non-coercive, and relatively stable relationships. It could be a healthy thing for some people, I imagine. But I think that in many instances, polygamy in the early days of the Church was the product of spiritual coercion, not true consent, and I therefore believe that, at least in some instances, its practice was abominable.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I believe that the practice of polygamy had a profound effect on the modern doctrine in the church regarding chastity. Whereas the Church was probably more lax in its early days in its emphasis on chastity, the polygamous history of the church opened it up to great criticism from the outside world, so much so that the leadership from Woodruff forward (with some exceptions who secretly practiced polygamy post-manifesto) became determined to restore the Church's reputation when it came to sexuality. I suspect that, along with the abolition of polygamy, the Church started to come down harder against things like premarital sex and masturbation (not to say that there was no condemnation of these things before, but Brigham Young had, for example, authorized the ordination of men to the priesthood who had long been "sowing their wild oats"). The Church wanted so much to avoid in the future the credibility issue that it had faced, that it adopted a strict and dogmatic approach to sexuality, in accordance with prevailing Victorian social morals around the turn of the 20th century. My belief is that this strict stance became so engrained that it has been awfully difficult for the Church to shake, notwithstanding great advances in the scientific study of sexuality. We are probably some generations away from the Church caving into the findings of secular scientists regarding what is normal and natural sexual behavior. Until then, many people will be keeping quiet about what they do in their private lives and hoping for the day that a president of the church issues a new and profound manifesto. This is an effect of polygamy that has been often overlooked, I think. Had polygamy not been practiced, it is my belief that the Church would have already recognized that masturbation is neither abnormal, unhealthy, nor sinful.

[Uncle Dale]

If the church had never practiced polygamy, it would have a great deal more credibility in the eyes of many non-members...

Or, if the LDS had simply voted by common consent, to remove the old

monogamous section from the 1835 D&C, and had been honest about

plural marriage practices from about 1842 onward -- that might have

helped also.

I can think of two benefits right off the top of my head:

1. Poor Martha Brotherton's story of Brigham Young trying to solicit her

as a plural wife would not have been denied by Hyrum Smith at the

Spring 1842 Nauvoo General Conference -- and Hyrum's brother William

would not have needed to lable the young lady as a "harlot" in the Nauvoo

"Wasp," forever destroying her previous reputation for feminine virtue.

2. The RLDS would not have had reason to establish a church in 1860, in

which the Smith family's continual denial of participation in Nauvoo plural

marriage was forever promulgated as holy truth (at the expense of Brigham

Young and the Twelve, -- being called apostates and deceivers by the RLDS).

Uncle Dale

[1dc]

What if the Church never practiced polygamy?

. . .

Anyway, I

[Anna]

Two problems here....Anna begins her thread by claiming she has "studied" polygamy for some time. She then proceeds to make assumption after assumption...which anyone who has studied can document as questionable immediately. I think that in cases like these the person making unsupported statements is required to back them up. For instance, this:

Anna:    This seems illogical. For one, if polygamy was practiced in the very small and rare cases that the church wants people to believe today, I can't see it having any significant impact on the ratable distribution of wealth and assistance.

I think it is always important to stay focused on key words, such as, in my response,

[Tribunal]

I have a question regarding polygamy in a legal sense and polygamy in a natural sense.

A man that legally marries a woman, has children with his wife, divorces his wife and then marries another woman, and then has children with the second wife, what is he? A polygamist?

A man that doesn't get married but gets two or more woman pregnant, what is he? A polygamist?

In the eyes of God what's the difference?

[charity]

Anna, you asked juliann this question: "So why do you think it is logical to assume polygamy led to stronger senses of loyalties to friends and relatives more so than monogamy?"

I think you missed the point. It isn't in the individual relationship, but in the number of relationships. The social web. You get a piece of paper and draw little circles and triangles as they use in social networks, and look at how the web grows. It is pretty impressive.

Tribunal: My opinion. The guy who marries, begets, divorces, remarries, begets. A serial polygamist. The guy who begets without marrying? An immoral jerk.