SCOTUS Decision: Ban on "Talk" Conversion Therapy is Unconstitutional

[smac97]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Quote

Again, my inquiry was about "males other than {fully-transitioned} 'trans women.'" 

So tell me what males want to use the women’s bathrooms who could pass for women, but aren’t transgendered women?

It seems that you are A) assuming that only fully-transitioned "trans women" and bad actors "want to use the women's bathroom," and B) laws restricting males from accessing women's bathrooms are worthless.  Am I correct on that?

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Since women’s restrooms have stalls, bottom surgery would not be required for using toilets.  

Okay.  Not sure how this would play out at scale.  Access is lawful based on the status of the individual: Males who are "fully transitioned" trans women can go in, but all other males cannot.  Is that correct?

Or would you prefer to statute or legal mechanism at all?  Just leave the decision to the individual?

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Would be needed for any locker room where exposure of penises could occur.

So by "fully transitioned" you are referring to biological males who have had their penises removed?

Would all other men be barred from women's locker rooms?

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

I clarified later in the post.

Not really seeing it, but I'll look again.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, smac97 said:

What "way" are you referencing here?  Trans women going into women's bathrooms?

Yes, the vast majority of the time, those who passed or were close enough to be ambiguous were the only ones attempting to use them…or we would have had this discussion long before it became a political rallying cry.

[Calm]

Just now, smac97 said:

seems that you are A) assuming that only fully-transitioned "trans women" and bad actors "want to use the women's bathroom," and B) laws restricting males from accessing women's bathrooms are worthless.  Am I correct on that?

Only ones I have heard of were those who were transitioned enough to pass, bad actors, and men who couldn’t or wouldn’t wait to use the men’s.

Not seeing why requiring one to have an id that says F in one’s pocket or purse would change the behaviour of the latter two.

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Not sure how this would play out at scale. 

What was the way it was done back in 1950 or 60?

Edited Friday at 11:00 PM by Calm

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Quote

What "way" are you referencing here?  Trans women going into women's bathrooms?

Yes, the vast majority of the time, those who passed or were close enough to be ambiguous were the only ones attempting to use them…or we would have had this discussion long before it became a political rallying cry.

I think stories like Lia Thomas and Lily Tino have given rise to these discussions.

Again: The issue did not originate with politicians inventing a controversy. It arose when institutions and advocacy groups began treating self-identification as sufficient to redefine sex-based categories in sports, prisons, shelters, and intimate facilities, and when those changes produced concrete conflicts over fairness, privacy, and safety.  That some politicians thereafter paid attention to it does not mean they created the topic, or that the underlying concerns are fabricated or "insane."

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Only ones I have heard of were those who were transitioned enough to pass, bad actors, and men who couldn’t or wouldn’t wait to use the men’s.

Not seeing why requiring one to have an id that says F in one’s pocket or purse would change the behaviour of the latter two.

I think you are conflating two separate - but interrelated - issues.

Government documents should correctly recite the person's biological sex, for a variety of reasons.  But IDs are not really relevant to, for example, the Kansas law.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Government documents should correctly recite the person's biological sex, for a variety of reasons.  But IDs are not really relevant to, for example, the Kansas law.

The ID in the purse or pocket was a stand-in for any type of legal restriction that ends up still being honor based and not with guards at the doors.  Not conflating, wondering how the world such efforts are actually going to work and make any sort of significant difference in safety for biological women.

Can you tell me what sort of restrictions will stop biological nontransitioned males from using women’s bathrooms if they are bad actors or who have too small of a bladder, drank too much, ignored the signals or whatever or who got hit with fluxus ventris (was looking for a Paraguayan dialect word because you know what it is as soon as you hear it…or should, lol, but couldn’t find it, so went with Latin) or just demand instant gratification with no instantly available men’s urinal in sight?

Edited yesterday at 12:08 AM by Calm

[smac97]

WNBA Strongly Denounces “Bad-Faith Efforts” of Cis Men Claiming to Be Trans to Join

Quote

The WNBA has commented on the growing number of outsiders trying to use the league’s gender eligibility policies to stir up controversy.

Following news that two former NBA players, Royce White and Enes Kanter Freedom, plan to register for the WNBA draft by simply saying they identify as women, the league has spoken out against these shameless and transphobic stunts.

I think White and Freedom are making a legitimate point.  If anyone can "register for the WNBA draft by simply saying they identify as women," and if "simply saying" is not to be questioned, then White and Freedom are on their way to the WNBA.

Alternatively, the WNBA would resolve the matter by explaining who does, and does not, count as "women."  But they can't and won't do that.  If the league endorses and accepts the expansive, incoherent, "a woman is anyone who identifies as one" approach, then the point White and Freedom are making will be validated.  Alternatively, if the league puts any coherent constraints on the definition of "woman," then they'll run afoul of folks who object to those constraints. 

Quote

“There are no immediate eligibility matters affecting the WNBA, and we strongly denounce the bad-faith efforts to use these topics to demean or marginalize others,” a league spokesperson told the Associated Press on Wednesday. The statement came after a meeting in which an anti-hate task force composed of team presidents and general managers met to discuss several topics, including transgender athletes.

To the extent White and Freedom are making a point about the definition of "woman," I don't see that as "bad faith."  I see it as a deployment of Saul Alinsky's "Rule 4": "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."

Quote

The WNBA’s policy currently states that “only players who are women are eligible to play in the WNBA,” with no language explicitly referencing gender identity or sex assigned at birth.

It's not just the policy.  It's the recent public statements welcoming "trans" athletes into the WNBA.

Quote

Last Friday, Freedom declared that he would be exploiting this vagueness in the WNBA language in order to declare himself a draft candidate.

“If simply declaring who you are is all that’s required, then I meet every single requirement necessary to compete in the WNBA,” Freedom wrote on X on August 7. “Based on the current guidelines, I can and am officially declaring my eligibility for the upcoming WNBA draft in April 2027.”

And he appears to be entirely correct.

Quote

White has said there would be a “huge legal battle” if he was not allowed to play. 

I am curious about this.  Ironically, the WNBA would seemingly need to rely on the reality of biological sex to defeat legal claims.

Quote

As the Associated Press, there has never been a trans woman on a WNBA roster and there is no legitimate trans athlete currently trying to declare for the 2027 draft.

"{N}o legitimate trans athlete."

If these principles are in play, then there is no mechanism whereby the WNBA can dispute a claimed "identity."

Quote

The Wednesday WNBA meeting did not end in any new policies or statutes being adopted regarding trans athlete eligibility, according to the Sports Business Journal. 

I think they want this controversy to blow over.  It may well do that.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, smac97 said:

They are much weaker once the formal rule (or institutional policy) says "self-identity" controls.

When did I say self identity should be the rule?

[smac97]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

The ID was a standing for any type of legal restriction that ends up still being honor based and not with guards at the doors.

Can you tell me what sort of restrictions will stop biological nontransitioned males from using women’s bathrooms if they are bad actors or who have too small of a bladder, drank too much, ignored the signals or whatever or who got hit with fluxus ventris (was looking for a Paraguayan dialect word because you know what it is as soon as you hear it…or should, lol, but couldn’t find it, so went with Latin) or just demand instant gratification with no instantly available men’s urinal in sight?

No rule stops every possible bad actor or every urgent biological need. That is not a serious standard for whether a boundary is justified.

Sex-separated bathrooms have never been claimed to be perfect filters. They reduce opportunity, express a clear norm, and give women a default expectation of privacy from the opposite sex.

Determined predators, people in medical distress, or someone who simply ignores the sign can still cause problems under any regime. The same is true of locks, age limits, and “Employees Only” doors. We do not abandon those measures because they are imperfect.

The relevant comparison is not “sex-based rule vs. zero incidents," but is instead “sex-based rule vs. identity-based (or no) rule.” Under a sex-based rule, a male who enters is already in violation; staff, other users, and (where applicable) the law have a clear basis to challenge or remove him. Under an identity-based rule, a male who asserts a female identity has a claimed entitlement to be there. That changes the default and removes the clean limiting principle.

Urgent need or poor impulse control does not require us to dissolve the category. They can be an argument for single-occupancy options where feasible, and for ordinary enforcement of existing criminal laws when someone abuses a space. It is not an argument that sex is irrelevant to the purpose of the facility.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

Using level of transitioning as the rule is not self identification, but appearance based.

I am not against men using women’s restrooms when there’s a need.  I was just making a list of biological males who might be accessing women’s toilets.

Quote

the alternative is “let appearance and informal judgment decide, and rely on ordinary criminal law after the fact,” then there is still no principled way to admit males who identify as women while reliably excluding other males. Appearance is a spectrum, identity is unverifiable, and predators are not limited to those who look stereotypically male. That is why I think the "limiting principle" question keeps returning. A sex-based rule has one. An identity- or appearance-based rule does not.

And yet it worked for eons before….

Edited Friday at 11:48 PM by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Analytics said:

Do these alleged women and girls really want the following people in women spaces? Why? 

Please no.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

My participation here is based mostly on "public policy"-related issues, whereas you and @Analytics are evaluating the Kansas law and other legalities from the perspective of one or few individuals.  Both inquiries are legitimate,

Nope, my view is practical.  I don’t see how anything other than the past appearance based honor system, report the occasional problem to the police and let a judge decide if a bad actor, mistake that will be corrected in the future, or false report could feasibly work.  IDs are useless without a system checking them.

The number of passing transgender women that would be harrassed or assaulted if forced to use men’s restrooms are significantly higher in numbers than biological males taking advantage of transgenders being able to use the restroom that matches their outward appearance.  Therefore, cost is higher with the first than the second just as cost is higher if obviously non passing transgendered individuals were allowed to use restrooms of choice and a large number of them chose to use their gender’s restroom rather than their sex….though from what I hear most are respectful of others’ trauma and fears and don’t, so perhaps I am wrong to just measure by numbers of assaulted and harassed women vs numbers of transgender women of all appearances.

Edited yesterday at 12:03 AM by Calm

[Calm]

On 8/14/2026 at 2:36 PM, Analytics said:

The Kansas law that Smac supports has a bounty provision. Now, going to the bathroom isn't merely about going to pee. It's also about an opportunity to make some money; if you go to the bathroom and you suspect somebody's birth certificate doesn't match the sign on the bathroom door, you can sue them for $1,000.

 

I hope they are tracking the number of biological women that will be harrassed.

I used to go out without my wallet all the time if not driving in Kansas.  Now I would need an ID to be sure I could use the restrooms at the zoo and libraries and church (trying to remember what places I used the facilities when living in Wichita).  I choose to wear men’s clothing, don’t wear makeup and have a man’s haircut at times and have been mistaken for a man from the back.

Edited 9 hours ago by Calm

[Calm]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

The way I see things, for the purposes of using the restroom, the following individuals should use the men's restroom:

But what about the examples Analytics posted?

I agree with all but probably one of your pictures, maybe two, but that would depend on actual behaviour, not stills.  I bet everyone can guess which one I would be okay about.  If they are feminine caricatures rather than just trying to be ordinary women, that makes a difference to me.  That is calling attention to their choice, that’s more than just a struggle to be something that doesn’t fit well with your biology.

Those who don’t want to be noticed, but can’t help it because of biology, but still put the effort in to look like the average every day woman…they are not going to be flashing penises around, so in the majority of cases I think should be okay.

Edited yesterday at 12:25 AM by Calm

[Analytics]

18 hours ago, Calm said:

But what about the examples Analytics posted?

I agree with all but probably one of your pictures, maybe two, but that would depend on actual behaviour, not stills....

Thanks to the magic of Google image search, we can get the full context on these photos.  It isn't surprising that @smac97 chose to take the photos out of context, because, unsurprisingly, the full context doesn't support the point he is trying to make.

20 hours ago, smac97 said:

In May of 2025, Lily Tino went to Disney World to make a series of videos ranking the Disney World's restrooms. That seems quite tacky to me, but social media. The behavior that is objectionable here is that in some of the videos, she captured videos of people in the background inside the restroom. That is what's objectionable here--not whether the person's birth certificate has an F or an M in the box.

 

20 hours ago, smac97 said:

This is an image of Paul Bixler. 

"Bixler has had a decades-long, illustrious career in public education, ranging from teacher to administrator to principal. She decided to come out of retirement in 2020 to run for an open school board seat at Liberty Elementary after seeing turnover and turmoil around the pandemic, hoping to help."

Paul was a genuine asset to her community, and was embraced by everyone around her. But she became the target of a hate campaign not because of her work for the community, but because right wing politicians and their tools thought she was a useful target. Her story can be read here:

12News: 'This is not a choice. I do not choose to be transgender': West Valley school board member becomes target of harassment

This individual claims to be inter-sex. 

In the first video, she went into a public restroom in a public building, peed, and left. Nicole Gillis, the chair of a right-wing student organization saw this. Rather than calling the cops out of any belief in a possible crime or danger, she took out her phone to record a video of her confrontation with the person as they left. When she left, Nicole shoved a camera in her face and said, "Excuse me, what were you doing in the women's bathroom?" She replies, "I'm sorry?" "What were you doing in the women's bathroom?" "I was peeing."  

In the second video." she went into the bathroom at McDonald's, with permission from that establishment. She peed, and washed her hands and left. She was the only one in the restroom. There was no allegations of peeping into stalls, exposing, photographing anyone, molesting anyone, or targeting children. While she was peeing, an angry Christian man decided to set up a video camera so he could record the confrontation he was planning when she walked out. As she was leaving, the Christian soldier angrily confronts her in the most judgmental and anti-Christian tone imaginable. The Christian triumphantly tells her, "God will take care of you in the end!" For the sin of peeing in a toilet that this other guy disagrees with. Yea. That sounds like what Jesus would say.

The amount of hate this stirs up in people is fascinating, and this is a great example of what's really going on here. If you made a list of problems in the world, an inter-sex individual who identifies as a woman using the toilet in the women's restroom rather than the men's is a tiny issue. At best. It is so clear that the point of this is to distract and manipulate voters.

 

 

On the left is Dawn Ennis, a successful journalist is who famous for being fired by ABC in 2013 for coming out as Transgender. She was on assignment from Forbes and the Los Angeles Blade to cover a swim meet at the McAuley Aquatic Center at Georgia Tech.

On the right is Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, a full-time professional anti-transgender activist. Keen-Minshull flew from England to Atlanta to protest an NCAA swimming event.

The only evidence we have that Dawn Ennis has ever used a lady's restroom is the fact that people like Kellie-Jay confront her in public and ask the loaded question, "I want to ask you for the safety of women and girls, do you use women's spaces?" As if which toilet she uses has anything to do with "the safety of women and girls."

The photo above is from Kellie-Jay stopping Dawn Ennis in a hallway at a swim event to ask that question and hopefully get a viral video out of it.  If you'd like to help Kellie-Jay make more money by harassing transgender people than she already does, you can donate here: https://www.letwomenspeak.org/

You can read the full story of this interaction here: https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/03/20/terfs-challenge-reporters-gender-at-ncaa-womens-championship/

Let's expand the examples of transgender hate to Peru. In the dress on the right is 42-year old Walter Solís Calero. Walter dressed up as a school girl and snuck into the girls restroom at a school for perverted purposes. A girl saw him and screamed. The Assistant principal called the cops and the rest is history.

Walter isn't transgender and never claimed to be a woman, nor claimed to have the right to be in the girl's bathroom. He was a male pervert pretending to be a girl so that he could sneak into the restroom for voyeuristic purposes.

A heterosexual pervert sneaking into the girls room to see girls is categorically different than a transexual going into the restroom to pee.

It seems Smac's fear is that a pervert could play the I'm-really-a-woman-and-I-have-the-right-to-be-here card, but there have been zero examples of that happening. Anywhere. Ever.

20 hours ago, smac97 said:

 

 

This is Brandon Awogboro, a convicted Level 2 sex offender. He was caught hiding in a woman's bathroom and spying on a woman in another stall. 

Brandon never claimed to "be a woman" or otherwise having a legitimate right to be in the restroom. Again, a male, heterosexual pervert hiding in a bathroom stall is categorically different than a transgender individual going to the restroom to pee.

This is Anthony Roy Adams. He was drunk and found himself at a WalMart in a town that was different than where he thought he was. In his drunken stupor, he stumbled into the women's restroom, not knowing what he was. While he was arrested "in the women's bathroom", the charge was public drunkenness. 

Again, Adams never claimed to be a woman or claimed to have some sort of entitlement to be in the women's room. There is no evidence that he was spying, exposing himself, or otherwise assaulting anybody. Again, this is categorically different than a transgender individual needing to pee and making his or her own decision about which public toilet would be most appropriate. 

This one is genuinely funny. It was posted on Instagram by comedian DeStorm Power on February 23, 2024.

Here is what happens. A man takes out his phone and video tapes his daughter walking into a restroom at a park. He says "You make sure nobody's in there!" He pokes his head in and starts videotaping into the women's restroom. He yells out "Hello!" Right on cue, the man in the headphones pictured above walks out from around the corner, smiling. DeStorm says, "See! There's a man in there!" The guy in the headphone dries his hands and walks away smiling while the man recording the video says, "Hey! That's the women's bathroom!" 

Then, the man with the camera walks all the way into the woman's bathroom, still recording, and pushes open all of the stalls, recording what he finds inside. He says, "You got to go in with your kids, make sure there ain't no man in the damn bathroom!"

It boggles my mind that not everybody sees how this was obviously staged and is satire. 

And I think this is the perfect metaphor for this whole conversation. It isn't serious.

Here is my summary of the videos:

The one transgender person who did anything actually wrong in the restroom was the first one, who videotaped herself in the restroom and caught other people in the background. That was wrong, but the wrongness was their stupidity trying to be an influencer and had nothing to do with being transgender.

Other than that, the transgender people were just going about their lives and were being pretty viciously attacked by judgemental Christians for which toilet they used, without even any accusations of doing anything wrong beyond that.

Other than the one exception above, the people who did actual things that were wrong were all heterosexual, cis men who never pretended to be transgender and never asserted any right to be in the lady's room.

In context, Smac's own photographs show how this is a non-issue. Nobody is getting away with anything that is threatening or otherwise posing a danger by saying, "I have a right to be here because I say so!" Smac still hasn't provided a single example of a bad actor trying to harm someone under the guise of having a right to be in the restroom.

Other than the cis-men Smac tries to associate with transgender people, if there is anything dangerous going on, it is by so-called Christians trying to stir hate against and provoke fights with people they don't approve of.

The limiting principle should be this: if you need to go to the bathroom, go in to the one you think is most appropriate, take care of your business, and leave. That is what civilized people have been doing since sex-distinct bathrooms have existed, and there is no evidence that this is no longer working. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Analytics

[Analytics]

On 8/14/2026 at 6:02 PM, smac97 said:

I think you are conflating two separate - but interrelated - issues.

Government documents should correctly recite the person's biological sex, for a variety of reasons.  But IDs are not really relevant to, for example, the Kansas law.

Thanks,

-Smac

ID’s are central to the law. Part of the law immediately and without warning or grace period revoked all driver licenses that didn’t match original birth certificates. 

[smac97]

5 hours ago, Analytics said:

ID’s are central to the law.

But not to bathrooms.

5 hours ago, Analytics said:

Part of the law immediately and without warning or grace period revoked all driver licenses that didn’t match original birth certificates. 

Yes.  It seems like it would not be too difficult to go in and get a replacement that provides the individual's biological sex.

Government documents such as DLs are not, I think, supposed to be a mode of self-expression of the individual.  Rather, it serves some specific and important purposes:

• Identification accuracy: Sex is a stable, observable biometric characteristic that helps law enforcement, border officials, and others confirm that the person presenting the DL is the person to whom it was issued.
• Public safety and investigation: Accurate sex data assists in locating missing persons, identifying suspects or victims, and conducting criminal investigations where physical description matters.
• Sex-specific legal and medical contexts: DLs are sometimes used in settings where sex is relevant—medical emergencies, single-sex facilities, correctional placement, and certain statutory requirements.
• Administrative consistency: DLs serve as foundational identity documents. Recording sex the same way across records (birth certificate, license, etc.) reduces mismatches and fraud opportunities.
• Statistical and planning uses: Aggregated, sex-based data from licensing records can support transportation planning, public-health analysis, and other government functions that rely on demographic accuracy.

I suspect you care less about the foregoing utilitarian-minded functions of DLs, and would prefer to have DLs reflect the individual's subjective "gender identity" that differs from his/her biological sex and the sexual binary.  Some jurisdictions are on board with this approach, and some are not.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

Thanks to the magic of Google image search, we can get the full context on these photos. 

Or you could have asked.  I culled them from YouTube videos of men in women's bathrooms.

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

It isn't surprising that @smac97 chose to take the photos out of context, because, unsurprisingly, the full context doesn't support the point he is trying to make.

I think the pictures demonstrate a few things.  

First, I think the overwhelming focus on "trans" persons in bathrooms is about men going into women's bathrooms.  Far less attention is paid to the reverse situation of women who identify as "trans men" going into men's bathrooms.  I have a few thoughts as to the basis for this asymmetry.

Second, over a number of posts you have posted numerous photos of women who identify as "trans men," apparently with the presupposition that they are a more important issue than the first item above (and/or to distract from the first item above).  I posted pictorial examples of men caught in women's bathrooms because, well, that's the primary area of concern.  I'm not sure that your pictures support your position in the way you apparently intended.  I think many women and girls oppose men in women's bathrooms, but they are being subjected to it in many places anyway.  Some jurisdictions, such as Kansas, are prioritizing the interests of women and girls over the interests of a much, much smaller group of persons (women who "identify" as men).  Again: Sex-separated bathrooms, locker rooms, shelters, and prison units exist because of persistent differences in strength, patterns of sexual offense, and the reasonable expectation of privacy from the opposite sex. These are not arbitrary preferences.  They are responses to material realities that affect safety, fairness, and dignity at scale.

Third, the pictures I posted are comprised of a variety of men caught in women's bathrooms.  Some are apparently self-identified "trans women" (including, e.g., Lily Tino) :

We can't really say if they are "trans women" because, well, there is no way to objectively differentiate between A) men who "identify" as "trans women" and B) men who may or may not so identify.  We've had this "whatever the individual declares about his/her 'gender identity' is correct, and there is to be no questioning of it" rule drilled into the public consciousness for years:

The above pictures demonstrate the lack of any functioning and coherent "limiting principles," which in turn may explain why some jurisdictions, such as Kansas, have elected to create a coherent limiting principle: biological sex.

Other pictures were less clear about "trans" identity, and perhaps showed instances of bad actors going into women's bathrooms:

We really don't know whether any of these men is "trans," do we?  After all, all they have to do is say "I identify as a woman" or "I am a trans woman" and they fit within what I understand to be your preferred laissez faire "anyone can do whatever they want" approach to allowing access to women's bathrooms.  In fact, they would not even need to bother with the "trans" identity thing at all, since you reject any limiting principles re: men going into women's bathrooms, and you would instead have society allow anyone to go in under the color of law.

The Kansas legislature, recognizing this, and also recognizing that bad actors could, under color of law, enter into women's bathrooms, and so decided to apply a limiting principle, namely, biological sex.

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

In May of 2025, Lily Tino went to Disney World to make a series of videos ranking the Disney World's restrooms. That seems quite tacky to me, but social media. The behavior that is objectionable here is that in some of the videos, she captured videos of people in the background inside the restroom. That is what's objectionable here

I agree.

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

--not whether the person's birth certificate has an F or an M in the box.

Here is where I disagree.  I think there are plenty of women and girls who find men in women's bathrooms "objectionable" (see, e.g., here and here).

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

This is an image of Paul Bixler. 

"Bixler has had a decades-long, illustrious career in public education, ranging from teacher to administrator to principal. She decided to come out of retirement in 2020 to run for an open school board seat at Liberty Elementary after seeing turnover and turmoil around the pandemic, hoping to help."

Paul was a genuine asset to her community, and was embraced by everyone around her. But she became the target of a hate campaign not because of her work for the community, but because right wing politicians and their tools thought she was a useful target. Her story can be read here:

12News: 'This is not a choice. I do not choose to be transgender': West Valley school board member becomes target of harassment

This individual claims to be inter-sex. 

I believe so, yes.  Any person can use such a claim, or else the "I identify as a woman" one, or else use no claim at all (since, again, you reject any coherent limiting principles) as a basis for entering into women's bathrooms.  And there is no way to differentiate legitimate and illegitimate claims because these claims are almost always internal and subjective.

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

On the left is Dawn Ennis, a successful journalist is who famous for being fired by ABC in 2013 for coming out as Transgender. She was on assignment from Forbes and the Los Angeles Blade to cover a swim meet at the McAuley Aquatic Center at Georgia Tech.

On the right is Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, a full-time professional anti-transgender activist. Keen-Minshull flew from England to Atlanta to protest an NCAA swimming event.

The only evidence we have that Dawn Ennis has ever used a lady's restroom is the fact that people like Kellie-Jay confront her in public and ask the loaded question, "I want to ask you for the safety of women and girls, do you use women's spaces?" As if which toilet she uses has anything to do with "the safety of women and girls."

I think women and girls are entitled to have safety among their concerns about men going into women's bathrooms.  Do you think otherwise?

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

Let's expand the examples of transgender hate to Peru.

I think there is a lot of disagreement about men going into women's bathrooms.  Unfortunately, some of that may spill over into anger, or even "hate" in some quarters.  While anger at overtly bad acts is understandable, a society of laws must govern by law.  And what counts as "bad acts" is going to vary a bit (I think plenty of folks think that men entering into women's bathrooms is inherently bad/improper). In any event, if a man is caught doing something nefarious, or suspected of doing something nefarious, then he ought to be treated like any other person under the law.

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

In the dress on the right is 42-year old Walter Solís Calero. Walter dressed up as a school girl and snuck into the girls restroom at a school for perverted purposes. A girl saw him and screamed. The Assistant principal called the cops and the rest is history.

Walter isn't transgender and never claimed to be a woman, nor claimed to have the right to be in the girl's bathroom. He was a male pervert pretending to be a girl so that he could sneak into the restroom for voyeuristic purposes.

Yes.  And your preferred approach to this issue is that the Walter Caleros-types of persons living in America have no need to "{sneak} into the girls restroom," since by your reckoning they can do so under the color of law.

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

A heterosexual pervert sneaking into the girls room to see girls is categorically different than a transexual going into the restroom to pee.

Respectfully, no, it isn't.  Walter and "trans women" would, in your approach, fall into the same category, namely, men who can enter into women's bathrooms under color of law.

I have spent many pages talking about "limiting principles," and Walter is a good example of why such principles are needed.  in my view, the only coherent and workable limiting principle is biological sex (with, perhaps, some narrowly-drawn exceptions for persons with DSDs).

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

It seems Smac's fear is that a pervert could play the I'm-really-a-woman-and-I-have-the-right-to-be-here card, but there have been zero examples of that happening. Anywhere. Ever.

From a previous post:

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Step 1: It's not really happening

Step 2: Yeah, it's happening, but it's not a big deal

Step 3: It's a good thing, actually

Step 4: People freaking out about it are the real problem

Your comment above ("It seems Smac's fear is that a pervert could play the I'm-really-a-woman-and-I-have-the-right-to-be-here card, but there have been zero examples of that happening. Anywhere. Ever.") appears to put you at Step 1 ("It's not really happening").  I think this is not correct.  

First, under your approach, there is no need to "play the I'm-really-a-woman-and-I-have-the-right-to-be-here card," since everyone would have access to women's bathrooms.  You reject any and all "limiting principles," correct?

Second, I think there have been instances of bad actors taking steps to appear as women so as to enter into women's bathrooms for unlawful purposes (and under your "No Limiting Principles" approach, there would be no way for a jurisdiction to keep them out of women's spaces). 

Judge Rules Loudoun County Teen Sexually Assaulted Female Student in Girls' Bathroom (2021)

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Ruling on a the case that has seized national attention and reinvigorated debate over parental rights in public education, a Virginia juvenile court judge concluded Monday that a transgender teenager sexually assaulted a female student in a Loudoun County high school in May.

Chief Judge Pamela L. Brooks found there was sufficient evidence to determine the individual guilty of sexual assault.

The decision comes after the Daily Wire spoke to the victim's father, who said the male student forcibly sodomized his ninth-grade daughter in a school bathroom while wearing a skirt. When the father attempted to describe and protest the incident at a local school-board meeting, he was arrested for disorderly conduct, allowing the sexual abuse to stay underground for months.

After the assault, the perpetrator was transferred to another school where he allegedly assaulted a second female student in early October.

In the interim, the Loudoun County School Board passed a sweeping gender-inclusivity policy allowing students to use restrooms and locker rooms, as well as compete in sports, according to their gender identity rather than biological sex.

"{T}he male student forcibly sodomized his ninth-grade daughter in a school bathroom while wearing a skirt."

And he was in the girls' bathroom under color of law (the "gender-inclusivity policy").

6 Men Who Disguised Themselves as Women to Access Bathrooms (from 2016)

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The risk to the privacy and safety of women and girls is real. There have been numerous cases in recent years of men either cross-dressing or claiming to be transgender in order to access women’s bathrooms and locker rooms for inappropriate purposes. Here are six examples:

1. In 2009, a sex offender named Richard Rendler was arrested for wearing fake breasts and a wig while loitering in a women’s restroom in a Campbell, California, shopping center. Rendler had previously been arrested on charges of child molestation and indecent exposure.

2. In 2010, Berkeley police arrested Gregorio Hernandez. Hernandez had disguised himself as a woman on two separate occasions to get inside a UC Berkeley locker room. Once in the locker room, Hernandez allegedly used his cell phone to photograph women.

3. In 2013, Jason Pomare was arrested for cross-dressing in order to gain access to the women’s restroom at a Macy’s department store in Palmdale, California. Pomare snuck a video camera in to secretly videotape women while they used the restroom.

4. In 2014, Christopher Hambrook—who faked being a transgender person named Jessica—was jailed in Toronto, Canada. Hambrook preyed on women at two Toronto shelters, and had previously preyed on other women and girls as young as 5 years old to as old as 53. Hambrook’s case in particular shows the importance of protecting the privacy and safety of some of our most vulnerable citizens: the homeless and others who seek emergency shelter. And yet, the Obama administration recently proposed a rule that would impose a “gender identity” mandate here as well.

5. In 2015, two spying instances were recorded in Virginia—one at a mall and one at a Wal-Mart. Both instances involved a man in women’s clothing who used a mirror and camera to take pictures of a mother and her 5-year-old daughter and a 53-year-old woman while they were in neighboring restroom stalls. The suspect wore a pink shirt and a long wig to present himself as a woman.

6. In 2016, a man used a women’s locker room at a public swimming pool in Washington state to undress in front of young girls who were changing for swim practice. When Seattle Parks and Recreation staff asked him to leave, the man claimed that “the law has changed and I have a right to be here.” The man was apparently referring to a Washington state rule that allows individuals to use the bathroom that corresponds with their gender identity. However, the man made no attempt to present as a woman.

As these examples illustrate, there are people who will abuse transgender policies. Although the Obama administration wants to keep its focus on bathrooms, its transgender directive goes much farther and actually requires biological male students who identify as female be granted unfettered access to women’s and girls’ showers at school gyms.

 

• "{W]earing fake breasts and a wig while loitering in a women’s restroom..."
• "Hernandez had disguised himself as a woman on two separate occasions to get inside a UC Berkeley locker room."
• "Both instances involved a man in women’s clothing who used a mirror and camera to take pictures of a mother and her 5-year-old daughter..."
• "a man used a women’s locker room at a public swimming pool in Washington state to undress in front of young girls who were changing for swim practice. When Seattle Parks and Recreation staff asked him to leave, the man claimed that 'the law has changed and I have a right to be here.'"

Transgender woman arrested for voyeurism at Ammon Target (2016)

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An Idaho Falls man who police say identifies as transgender was arrested Tuesday afternoon after deputies say he took photos of a woman in a fitting room in Target.

Sean Patrick Smith, 46, who also goes by Shauna Patricia Smith, was booked into the Bonneville County Jail on one felony count of voyeurism.

Bonneville County Sgt. Bryan Lovell says deputies were called to a disturbance at Target on 25th East just after 5 p.m. Monday.

A woman told them a man, dressed in women’s clothing, had entered a fitting room in the women’s clothing section of the store. Deputies say the suspect was seen taking photos of a woman in a stall next to him while she was changing.

“The woman was begging for help as she chased the man out the door,” a witness inside the store, who asked not to be named, tells EastIdahoNews.com. “She kept saying she wanted those pictures deleted.”

"{A} man, dressed in women’s clothing, had entered a fitting room in the women’s clothing section of the store. Deputies say the suspect was seen taking photos of a woman in a stall next to him while she was changing."

Man Dressed as Woman Arrested for Spying Into Mall Bathroom Stall, Police Say (2015)

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A man dressed as a woman was arrested in Virginia on Monday after police say he was caught peeping into restroom stalls three times in the past year.

Richard Rodriguez, 30, filmed a woman in a bathroom stall at the Potomac Mills Mall, Prince William County Police said on Tuesday. A 35-year-old woman was in the stall when she saw a bag moved toward her under the stall divider. Rodriguez apparently had been filming her, police said.

The victim rushed out of the stall to confront the man and saw him hurry to another stall, next to another woman. The victim alerted the woman and then contacted mall security of the shopping center on 2700 block of Potomac Mills Circle in Woodbridge, Virginia.

"A man dressed as a woman was arrested in Virginia on Monday after police say he was caught peeping into restroom stalls three times in the past year."

Cross-Dressing Man Secretly Taped Women at Macy’s (2013)

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A 33-year-old man was charged Tuesday with allegedly dressing as a woman to secretly videotape women using the restroom at a Macy’s department store.

Jason Pomare was arrested Saturday after a customer notified store security that a man was in the lady’s room acting suspiciously.

The woman told security officers that the man was wearing a wig and was dressed as a woman.

"{T}he man was wearing a wig and was dressed as a woman."

Sex offender posed as woman, went into women's locker room

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A registered sex offender dressed up like a woman, went into a women's locker room at a pool and talked with several children before being chased down by a good Samaritan, according to the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office.

Det. Jim Strovnink said on Friday afternoon, Thomas Lee Benson, wearing a bra, lipstick and eyeliner, walked into the North Clackamas Aquatic Park in Milwaukie.

While posing as a woman, the 39-year-old Benson wandered around the center talking with children, went in the women's locker room and took a dip in the hot tub.

The pool was full of children at the time, including many on a summer field trip with the group Self Enhancement, Inc.

Tayo Cotton said she was supervising kids on the field trip when he noticed Benson walk into the men's locker room wearing a bikini.

"It looked just like a man wearing a bikini bottom, and he had a white T-shirt on with a bikini top. You could see the bikini top," Cotton said.

Cotton said he next saw Benson leaving the locker room dressed in men's clothes. When Cotton tried to stop Benson, the man took off running, investigators said.

"A registered sex offender dressed up like a woman, went into a women's locker room at a pool and talked with several children before being chased down."

Man Undresses In Front Of Children In Walmart Restroom (2010)

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A Rome man was arrested and accused of undressing in front of children at a Walmart in Calhoun, police said.

According to a police report filed by the Calhoun Police Department, Norwood Smith Burnes, 51, undressed in the women's restroom on Sunday in front of several children.

A witness told police Burnes also ordered women out of the restroom as they tried to enter it.

Calhoun Police said when they arrived at the store, Burnes was wearing a dark woman's suit, black high heals, red nail polish, green eye shadow and women's jewelry.

The police report said a witness also watched Burnes "show off his white girdle and dark thong underwear" in the women's section of the store.

He was charged with public indecency, disorderly conduct and criminal trespass.

"Burnes was wearing a dark woman's suit, black high heals, red nail polish, green eye shadow and women's jewelry. ... a witness also watched Burnes 'show off his white girdle and dark thong underwear' in the women's section of the store."

Purdue police investigate report of man taking photographs in women's restroom (2008)

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Purdue University police are investigating a reported incident in which a man dressed as a woman was seen taking photographs under the wall of a women's bathroom stall in Yue-Kong Pao Hall of Visual and Performing Arts.

The incident was reported to police about 3:30 p.m. Monday (March 31).

According to a police report, a woman was in a bathroom stall on the third floor of the building and saw a hand holding a blue flip-phone camera beneath the door. She left the restroom and then returned to confront the person. At that point, she realized the person was a man dressed as a woman.

"She told him she didn't appreciate him taking pictures, and he showed her his photographs, saying he didn't have any pictures of her," Purdue police Lt. Fred Davis said.

A staff member who was in the restroom also confronted the man and told him to follow her to an office on the main floor.

"As they descended the stairs and got to the main floor, the man ran away," Davis said.

The man was seen in a nearby parking lot getting into a small red vehicle with a bicycle rack on the back. He was seen driving east on Wood Street toward U.S. 231.

He is described as a white male, about 6 feet, 1 inch tall, weighing 180 to 200 pounds, with shaved arms. He was wearing facial makeup, a long, dark-colored wig, a brown top, light gold-colored Capri pants and plaid shoes.

"{A} man dressed as a woman was seen taking photographs under the wall of a women's bathroom stall..."

Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter (2014 in Canada)

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A biological man claiming to be ‘transgender’ so as to gain access to and prey on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed “indefinitely” last week after being declared by a judge a “dangerous offender.”

Pro-family leaders are pointing out that this is exactly the type of incident they warned of as the Ontario government passed its “gender identity” bill, dubbed the “bathroom bill,” in 2012.

Christopher Hambrook, 37, leaned on the ever expanding legal “rights” offered to people who “identify” with the sex opposite their biology. Under the name “Jessica,” he was able to get into the women’s shelters, where he sexually assaulted several women in 2012, the Toronto Sun reports. 

Court heard how one woman awoke to find Hambrook assaulting her on her bed. “Her tights had been pulled down past her bottom and her bathing suit had been pulled to the side,” court documents reveal. “She yelled at the accused, demanding to know what he was doing. He simply covered his face with his hands, said ‘Oops!’ and started giggling.”

Court also heard evidence of Hambrook terrorizing a deaf woman living in the shelter. “The accused grabbed the complainant’s hand and forcibly placed it on his crotch area while his penis was erect,” court heard.

The same deaf women reported that Hambrook would peer at her through a gap between the door and its frame while she showered.

Justice John McMahon imposed the “indefinite” prison sentence due to Hambrook’s long history of committing sex crimes.

Hambrook was a former stripper and escort from Quebec before moving to Toronto in 2009 and posing as a woman. While in Montreal he served four years in jail for a 2002 sexual assault of a five-year-old girl who was a family friend and for raping a mentally challenged 27-year-old woman while on bail for the first crime, reports the Toronto Sun.

The prosecution successfully convinced the judge that Hambrook’s out-of-control sexual urges put the public at great risk and that an indefinite jail sentence was the only way to protect the public.

"Under the name 'Jessica,' he was able to get into the women’s shelters, where he sexually assaulted several women in 2012..."

‘Transgender’ man may continue using girls’ locker room, says college (2012)

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A Washington state college has decided it will not prevent a 45-year-old man from lounging naked in a women’s locker room, in an area frequented by girls as young as six.

The 45-year-old man, who calls himself Colleen Francis, presents himself as a transgender “female.”

Evergreen State College shares its locker room with Capital High School, Olympia High School, the Evergreen Swim Club, and Aquatics Academy. The latter has students as young as six.

On September 26, teenage girls on a high school swim team were using the facilities when they saw “Colleen” Francis exposing male genitalia through the glass window in a sauna.

According to the police report an eyewitness stated, “There were girls 6 to 18 years of age and they were not used to seeing individuals in situations like this.” 

Later that week, the mother of one of the girls as well as their coach contacted the police, only to be told the university would not bar a biological male from the premises.

Joe Wheeler of the Thurston County Prosecutor’s Office said he will not prosecute the matter as indecent exposure.

"The 45-year-old man, who calls himself Colleen Francis, presents himself as a transgender 'female.' ... On September 26, teenage girls on a high school swim team were using the facilities when they saw 'Colleen' Francis exposing male genitalia through the glass window in a sauna."

"Joe Wheeler of the Thurston County Prosecutor’s Office said he will not prosecute the matter as indecent exposure."

Seems like the above items moves us to Step 2 ("Yeah, it's happening, but it's not a big deal").

These items were not hard to find, BTW.

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

This is Brandon Awogboro, a convicted Level 2 sex offender. He was caught hiding in a woman's bathroom and spying on a woman in another stall. 

Brandon never claimed to "be a woman" or otherwise having a legitimate right to be in the restroom.

I don't think this matters, as under your regime there are no limiting principles, ergo no such thing as a "legitimate" or "illegitimate" right for males to enter into women's bathrooms.  All of them have that right, under color of law.  No need to even bother with claiming to be trans or dressing like a woman or entering covertly.  

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

Again, a male, heterosexual pervert hiding in a bathroom stall is categorically different than a transgender individual going to the restroom to pee.

You've said this twice now.  What is this "category" thing?  Under your preferred "no limiting principles / laissez faire" approach, what "categories" of men exist, such that some can enter into women's bathrooms and some cannot?

By repeatedly alluding to "categorical" differences, you implicitly acknowledge reliance on some sort of limiting principle.  Could you explain what the principle is?

14 hours ago, Analytics said:

The limiting principle should be this: if you need to go to the bathroom, go in to the one you think is most appropriate, take care of your business, and leave.

So everyone can enter into women's bathrooms under color of law.  That is what you propose?

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited 33 minutes ago by smac97