Cofc Now To Marry Same-Sex Couples

[Buzzard]

http://www.kcur.org/post/community-christ-oks-gay-marriage-and-clergy

Seems like they should be announcing their merger with either the Episcopalians or the Unitarians. I mean, good for them if that floats their boat, but is there a more liberal denomination out there?

[Stone holm]

Do the C of C believe in the Snow Couplet or is their vision of the hereafter like that of mainline Protestant doctrine. If they believe like most Protestants then there is no real reason for them not to accept gay marriage. We on the other hand have a core doctrinal reason given the implications of exaltation and the Snow couplet.

[Buzzard]

Do the C of C believe in the Snow Couplet or is their vision of the hereafter like that of mainline Protestant doctrine. If they believe like most Protestants then there is no real reason for them not to accept gay marriage. We on the other hand have a core doctrinal reason given the implications of exaltation and the Snow couplet.

This is an oversimplification, and I'm sure one of the friendly CofC members who post here could clean it up some, but it's my understanding that pretty much any doctrine introduced from Nauvoo on is not ascribed to by the CofC, and for the past 30 years they have also been distancing themselves from the historicity of the BOM.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

This is fom their US Conference specifically. They are still not marrying gays in other countries, except Canada. I think their game-plan moving forward is to let National Conferences, in their own countries, approve gay-marriage as homosexuality becomes acceptable in whatever country that National Conference may be in.

[Damien the Leper]

I was not surprised by the overwhelming majority that approved the move.

[Saints Alive]

I find it amazing how the CofC and LDS can be polar opposites. Do we have anything substantial in common with them anymore? Beside our common history.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I find it amazing how the CofC and LDS can be polar opposites. Do we have anything substantial in common with them anymore? Beside our common history.

We traditional RLDS wonder the same thing, and it is the church we walked out of 25ish years ago.

[Stone holm]

We traditional RLDS wonder the same thing, and it is the church we walked out of 25ish years ago.

Okay well if RLDS do not believe in eternal marriage why do they care about gay marriage?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Okay well if RLDS do not believe in eternal marriage why do they care about gay marriage?

First, marriage was first commandment given by God to man.

Second, the God-ordained family unit is the fundamental until of society as it fails, society fails- as it thrives society thrives.

Third, homosexual relationships are forbidden by God, thus making it sin. Any society that willfully engages in sin brings heartache and destruction among the inhabitants of the earth.

Fourth, I care because I don't want any person to suffer the pain of everlating seperation from God that comes through rebllion to his commandments.

**One does not have to have the LDS theological position of "eternal families" in order to recognize the vital importance of marriage as ordained by God. **

[Stone holm]

First, marriage was first commandment given by God to man.

Second, the God-ordained family unit is the fundamental until of society as it fails, society fails- as it thrives society thrives.

Third, homosexual relationships are forbidden by God, thus making it sin. Any society that willfully engages in sin brings heartache and destruction among the inhabitants of the earth.

Fourth, I care because I don't want any person to suffer the pain of everlating seperation from God that comes through rebllion to his commandments.

**One does not have to have the LDS theological position of "eternal families" in order to recognize the vital importance of marriage as ordained by God. **

True but structurally it is not as embedded into your view of the universe. Do you believe in a Heavenly Mother?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

True but structurally it is not as embedded into your view of the universe. Do you believe in a Heavenly Mother?

No, I do not. I have heard theories concerning Wisdom and the Holy Ghost, but it is not something a spend any time pondering.

You make it seem as though that if we don't hold to uniquely LDS teachings, that somehow we don't use the scriptures at all.

It is very clear from scripture the importance of family.

It is very clear from scriptures that God wants us the marry and have children.

It is very clear from scripture that homosexual relationships are a sin.

It is very clear from scripture that sin is bad.

Knowing all these things from scripture- why in the world would you think that I shouldn't care about homosexual "marriage"?

I am struggling to understand why you think only LDS folks could possibly care that the traditional family unit is preserved.

[Saints Alive]

True but structurally it is not as embedded into your view of the universe.

So if you don't believe in eternal marriage and Heavenly Mother you must support gay marriage? I think that Non-LDS can have just as valid of an argument against gay marriage as LDS.

[Tacenda]

So if you don't believe in eternal marriage and Heavenly Mother you must support gay marriage? I think that Non-LDS can have just as valid of an argument against gay marriage as LDS.

Maybe he believes the bible where it says no marriage in heaven. And maybe he believes he will still live with his family. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if we are to be married and creating worlds without end we won't be eternal with our earthly children? They'd be doing the same thing.

[Lightbearer]

No, I do not. I have heard theories concerning Wisdom and the Holy Ghost, but it is not something a spend any time pondering.

You make it seem as though that if we don't hold to uniquely LDS teachings, that somehow we don't use the scriptures at all.

It is very clear from scripture the importance of family.

It is very clear from scriptures that God wants us the marry and have children.

It is very clear from scripture that homosexual relationships are a sin.

It is very clear from scripture that sin is bad.

Knowing all these things from scripture- why in the world would you think that I shouldn't care about homosexual "marriage"?

I am struggling to understand why you think only LDS folks could possibly care that the traditional family unit is preserved.

Amen! So do I! I cannot understand why any LDS would say such a thing! Homosexuality is an abomination according to ancient and modern prophets it always has been and always will be. Nobody could possibly think that God would ever condone such an abhorent lifestyle, perhaps it is not a stance that is "politically correct" in todays corrupt society, but I would prefer to please God rather than man. I for one appreciate your stance on homosexual relationships. I believe the mainstream of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is on the same page on this issue with you and other Christians and even some non-christian religions. Just because one does not have the same doctrinal understanding on eternal marriage does not mean that one would accept an immoral practice that has been condemned by God since the beginning. This corrupt idea of SSM is a sign of the times, well said Isaiah:

"Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope: That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it! Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!" (Old Testament | Isaiah 5:18-23)

This truly describes our day, the last days.

[canard78]

No, I do not. I have heard theories concerning Wisdom and the Holy Ghost, but it is not something a spend any time pondering.

You make it seem as though that if we don't hold to uniquely LDS teachings, that somehow we don't use the scriptures at all.

It is very clear from scripture the importance of family.

It is very clear from scriptures that God wants us the marry and have children.

It is very clear from scripture that homosexual relationships are a sin.

It is very clear from scripture that sin is bad.

Knowing all these things from scripture- why in the world would you think that I shouldn't care about homosexual "marriage"?

I am struggling to understand why you think only LDS folks could possibly care that the traditional family unit is preserved.

I enjoy and appreciate your contribution here.

Out of interest, what's the RLDS perspective on something like the King Follett discourse with it's teaching on the nature of God?

I know the LDS church has never gone as far as canonizing it, but it's clear that it has informed some of our teachings and perspectives and also is quoted in parts in several lesson manuals.

[Saints Alive]

Maybe he believes the bible where it says no marriage in heaven. And maybe he believes he will still live with his family. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if we are to be married and creating worlds without end we won't be eternal with our earthly children? They'd be doing the same thing.

im not sure what you are driving at.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I enjoy and appreciate your contribution here.

Out of interest, what's the RLDS perspective on something like the King Follett discourse with it's teaching on the nature of God?

I know the LDS church has never gone as far as canonizing it, but it's clear that it has informed some of our teachings and perspectives and also is quoted in parts in several lesson manuals.

I would direct you to this response concerning the KFD...

http://restored.org/lds/kingfoll.htm

[Stone holm]

So if you don't believe in eternal marriage and Heavenly Mother you must support gay marriage? I think that Non-LDS can have just as valid of an argument against gay marriage as LDS.

No that is not what I said. But I do believe that we LDS have structural doctrinal reasons to not accept gay marriage that most Christian faiths do not. There are many OT issues that we no longer abide such as executing witches, etc. But our whole concept of what eternal life is about and how the Cosmos functions revolves around the concept of male and female gods producing spiritual offspring and creating new worlds that presents a much more serious issue than merely a prophet saying don't do it thousands of years ago, because it is a taboo backed up by a structural cosmic reason. So I expect that the majority of Christian faiths will eventually accept gay marriage, we on the other hand do not have that option without tearing our faith a part.

[Tacenda]

im not sure what you are driving at.

Maybe the RLDS or the strand that broke from the C of C don't believe in the teaching that we'll be Gods.

[Stone holm]

Maybe the RLDS or the strand that broke from the C of C don't believe in the teaching that we'll be Gods.

Don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think you said two different things back there. One that possibly he believes in eternal families which does not require they become gods. But that would not structurally preclude gay marriage with adopted children. You also seemed to be saying that we won't really be living as families because our kids will be off creating worlds, that does not necessarily draw an accurate picture. If we make the Ce,estimable Kingdom we will be living here on this celestialized earth with our families. Our creations will be elsewhere. Just as I assume Heavenly Father will continue to live with His parents hie unto Kolob. If there is any inconsistencies in our songs and teachings it is with the notion we will be living with Heavenly Father.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

No that is not what I said. But I do believe that we LDS have structural doctrinal reasons to not accept gay marriage that most Christian faiths do not. There are many OT issues that we no longer abide such as executing witches, etc. But our whole concept of what eternal life is about and how the Cosmos functions revolves around the concept of male and female gods producing spiritual offspring and creating new worlds that presents a much more serious issue than merely a prophet saying don't do it thousands of years ago, because it is a taboo backed up by a structural cosmic reason. So I expect that the majority of Christian faiths will eventually accept gay marriage, we on the other hand do not have that option without tearing our faith a part.

The verse you reference concerning executing witches was corrected by Joseph Smith to read thus, "Thou shalt not suffer a murderer to live." Which I do believe we ARE still doing.

Moving on...

I believe something is good, because God said it was good, and I believe the something is sin, because GOD said it was sin- I don't need some super-complex conception of the afterlife life and the cosmos to believe it.

If God said it , it is good enough for me... He doesn't need to explain Himself.

[Tacenda]

Don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think you said two different things back there. One that possibly he believes in eternal families which does not require they become gods. But that would not structurally preclude gay marriage with adopted children. You also seemed to be saying that we won't really be living as families because our kids will be off creating worlds, that does not necessarily draw an accurate picture. If we make the Ce,estimable Kingdom we will be living here on this celestialized earth with our families. Our creations will be elsewhere. Just as I assume Heavenly Father will continue to live with His parents hie unto Kolob. If there is any inconsistencies in our songs and teachings it is with the notion we will be living with Heavenly Father.

Last quote allowed until the evening but worth it. Stone, I was under the assumption that we'll be in our own universes and overseeing our children that we created while at the same time our earthly children will be doing the same thing elsewhere. But what I gather from what you've said, we will be with our earthly children in one universe overseeing our individual worlds? I'm just getting over a severe stomach virus and haven't slept well so my brain isn't functioning very well, not that it did anyway. I thought Saints Alive was addressing BookofMormonLuvr not you, now I see he was speaking to you. And he was asking a question not stating a fact, he said "So if you don't believe in eternal marriage and Heavenly Mother you must support gay marriage" so apologies to Saints Alive for looking at the sentence the opposite that it was intended. ETA: I think Saints Alive wasn't asking a question or stating fact just being sarcastic. Stone, I wish the church would better help some of us understand the hereafter, it seems that the earlier prophets weren't as politically correct or should I say, quiet about these things.

[Stone holm]

Last quote allowed until the evening but worth it. Stone, I was under the assumption that we'll be in our own universes and overseeing our children that we created while at the same time our earthly children will be doing the same thing elsewhere. But what I gather from what you've said, we will be with our earthly children in one universe overseeing our individual worlds? I'm just getting over a severe stomach virus and haven't slept well so my brain isn't functioning very well, not that it did anyway. I thought Saints Alive was addressing BookofMormonLuvr not you, now I see he was speaking to you. And he was asking a question not stating a fact, he said "So if you don't believe in eternal marriage and Heavenly Mother you must support gay marriage" so apologies to Saints Alive for looking at the sentence the opposite that it was intended.

I am not certain about the use of the word "universe" I don't know if there are separate universes or not, or rather whether you can say that our teachings teach separate universes. It would seem to me that all the discussion about nigh unto Kolob suggests that possibly Heavenly Father just organized a part of this universe, and that we will be doing the same, etc. That gets way too far into the physical sciences for me to hazard a guess, and I don't think the early Prophets of the Restoration were very clear on the subject, and of course recent Prophets steer away from commenting on any of this stuff because of the news media.

[cdowis]

Maybe he believes the bible where it says no marriage in heaven.

The Bible makes no such statement. It says that there is no "marrying or giving in marriage" which is consistent with LDS doctrine.

[Stone holm]

The Bible makes no such statement. It says that there is no "marrying or giving in marriage" which is consistent with LDS doctrine.

Correct.