inquiringmind Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Is this a prophecy of Abraham Lincoln's death in office?Will the President that sits in the chair of state be tipped from his seat? Yes, he will die an untimely death, and God Almighty will curse him; and He will also curse his successor, if he takes the same stand; ... God Almighty will curse them, and I curse them in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, according to my calling; and if there is any virtue in my calling, they shall be cursed, every man that lifts his heel against us from this day forth. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p.133).I undertand that this was said by Heber C. Kimball (when he was first councilor to Brigham Young), but who was president? Edited July 7, 2011 by inquiringmind
Gohan Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) It sounds like it would've been a conditional prophecy......and He will also curse his successor, if he takes the same stand...I don't think it applies to Lincoln's death, considering he treated the Saints fairly well especially when compared to Buchanan. It just happened. Edited July 7, 2011 by Gohan
inquiringmind Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 James Buchanan.But didn't he live to be 77?
Gohan Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) He died June 1, 1868. So about eleven years passed from when Heber C Kimball gave it, give or take. Edited July 7, 2011 by Gohan
The King's Servant Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 He died June 1, 1868. So about eleven years passed from when Heber C Kimball gave it, give or take.Obviously a false prophecy.
altersteve Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Obviously a false prophecy.Nope. A conditional one. 1
Jaybear Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Nope. A conditional one.The condition ..."if he takes the same stand..." refers to his successor, Lincoln, who didn't take the same stand, but was killed anyway. Are you referring to this condition? : "if there is any virtue in my calling" Edited July 7, 2011 by Jaybear
cinepro Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Is this a prophecy of Abraham Lincoln's death in office?Will the President that sits in the chair of state be tipped from his seat? Yes, he will die an untimely death, and God Almighty will curse him; and He will also curse his successor, if he takes the same stand; ... God Almighty will curse them, and I curse them in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, according to my calling; and if there is any virtue in my calling, they shall be cursed, every man that lifts his heel against us from this day forth. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p.133).I undertand that this was said by Heber C. Kimball (when he was first councilor to Brigham Young), but who was president?Just to be clear, that talk was given in 1857. That was when "Johnston's Army" was on its way to Utah.Here are the few paragraphs preceding: God knew that Zachary Taylor would strike against us, and He sent him to h***. President Fillmore was thenext man who came on the platform, and he did us good. God bless him! Then came President Pierce, and hedid not strive to injure us. We hoped that the next after him would do us justice; but he has issued orders tosend troops to kill brother Brigham and me, and to take the young women to the States.The woman will be damned that will go: she shall dry up in the fountain of life, and be as though she neverwas. But there ain't any a−going − [Voices: "There are none that want to go!"] − unless they are whores. If thesoldiers come here, those creatures will have the privilege of showing themselves and of becomingdebauched.I tell you there is not a purer set of women on God's earth than there is here; and they shall live and bear thesouls of men, and bear tabernacles for those righteous spirits that are kept back for the last time, for thewinding−up scenery.JD 5:134, Heber C. Kimball, August 2, 1857
inquiringmind Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) He died June 1, 1868. So about eleven years passed from when Heber C Kimball gave it, give or take.But he was born in 1791, so he was 77.I'm pretty certain that's above the average life expectancy at the time, so how could it be called "an untimely death"? Just to be clear, that talk was given in 1857. That was when "Johnston's Army" was on its way to Utah.What happened to that army?Were they recalled?Did president Buchanan repent (or change his policy towrard Latter Day Saints)? Edited July 7, 2011 by inquiringmind
LeSellers Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Did president Buchanan repent (or change his policy towrard Latter Day Saints)?There may be some question about why he did, but the effect is irrefutable: he pulled the army out, and ended the Utah War and granted pardons (although,as Brother Brigham wondered, pardon for what?) to all those who were supposedly in rebellion against the united States. That was what the Saints were worried about. The Brethren of that day, Brigham and Heber foremost among them, often used hyperbolic language, and pushed the envelope in their rhetoric to make the point at hand. Lehi
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