Polygamy

[juliann]

As a general rule...yes,

[juliann]

Please provide evidence from Colorado city that there is a complete absence of infidelity, pornography, spousal and child abuse (these men "marry" children and you think that is not abuse of children), family neglect

So "Colorado City" is your benchmark? Please explain why this is an appropriate control group for the study of marriage. Be very detailed and include all marriage systems worldwide.

[juliann]

I think of polygamy as being a nearly permanent embarrassment to the LDS Church. I wish they would just say 'we just don't know much about it', and let it's doctrine slide quietly into oblivion.

Excuse me....but speak for yourself. Those of us who come from this "embarrassment" may not feel like we have to apologize for what our great grandparents did and have no intent of letting these people "slide into oblivion".

[Opaline]

leaving the church now

[juliann]

Joseph Smith gave the women 24 or so hours to marry him. 

And then what? Documentation please.

One thing that stood out to me when reading "In Sacred Lonliness" was how frequently the Saints divorced. (even Joseph Smith's wives)

[emaughan]

I think of polygamy as being a nearly permanent embarrassment to the LDS Church.

Not to me. Am gratefull that it is part of my faith's history - both Bible days and Latter days! I would not exist if it were not for the practice and I've met many wonderful people who are here thanks to plural marriage.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

[Golden Tapir]

Q: Polygamy, Is it a permanent part of the Gospel?

A: Although the 'observance' (good word, huh?) of P is 'temporarily suspended', it clearly is a part of Christ's gospel (unless, of course, JS & BY were teaching False information).

[juliann]

Q: Polygamy, Is it a permanent part of the Gospel?

A: Although the 'observance' (good word, huh?) of P is 'temporarily suspended', it clearly is a part of Christ's gospel (unless, of course, JS & BY were teaching False information).

Is the Old Testament "false information"? Were all the OT prophets teaching false information?

[Golden Tapir]

Is the Old Testament "false information"? Were all the OT prophets teaching false information?

i u.stand that in the O.T. there were MANY strange things that LDS wouldn't touch with a 3 meter pole now.

Are there any examples of the OT saints practicing P as it was in the early days of the church? (2 living husbands, etc.) I u.stand the bit about concubines, but I don't believe those qualify as direct comparison.

[Opaline]

Q: Polygamy, Is it a permanent part of the Gospel?

A: Although the 'observance' (good word, huh?) of P is 'temporarily suspended', it clearly is a part of Christ's gospel (unless, of course, JS & BY were teaching False information).

Is the Old Testament "false information"? Were all the OT prophets teaching false information?

[rameumptom]

The laws and principles as practiced in the Patriarchal age are very different than they are now. We are a worldwide Church, not just a small family that lived in a society that had no problem with plural marriage and concubines.

Now, when we get to Moses, we see that plural marriage was occasionally commanded. For example, if a man died without children, his brother was expected to take the spouse as his wife and raise up seed unto the man and the Lord.

Besides, not everything is found in the Old Testament. We are talking about a book that covers the time from Adam down to Moses in one book. Clearly we have just a snapshot of those 3000 years.

[Opaline]

Have Faith

[Opaline]

[juliann]

Where have I "made things up?"

Quite a few places. Start with LDS divorce rates.

[Opaline]

peace

[juliann]

Otherwise, I have a suspicion that I can type the entire J of D, and journals of any documented polygamous wife and it wouldn't matter. The documentation I already provided was conveniently tossed aside to accomadate your need to accuse me of "making things up."

Again...you are making things up. If you were to provide even a portion of that it would matter. As it is, we have a lot of what you think supports your bias based on a sentence or two with references like (A. Larson 1971, 270). Where is the original quote from Mrs. Snow? How do we find the rest of it? You are obviously copying from something and not giving credit to your source who actually did the work of compiling the few quotes you have provided.

As for me providing documentation...you are the one making the claims. You back them up. We have only had two posters who obsessed on polygamy and only one who felt the urge to give us personal details about her own perfect marriage. Which one are you?

[Nighthawke]

1. Serial Monogamy (divorce and remarriage)

*The extent of Mormon (polygamous) divorce was a concern for Brigham Young.

"It is not right for the bretheren to divorce their wives the way they do. I am determined that if men don't stop divorcing their wives, I shall stop sealing." (JH 15 Dec. 1858) 1,645 divorces were granted by Brigham Young during the period of his presidency. (Campbell and Campbell 1978,5) D. Michael Quinn's study of the Mormon Hiearchy indicates that of the 72 GENERAL AUTHORITIES who entered plural marriage, 39 were involoved in marital breakups, including 54 divorces, 26 seperations, and one annulement. Many of the church leaders, however, were married to numerous wives, thereby substantially increasing the possibility for broken marriages."

One thing that stood out to me when reading "In Sacred Lonliness" was how frequently the Saints divorced. (even Joseph Smith's wives) I thought in that era that Divorce was rare. That was new information to me.

1,645 or 1,545? Can you double-check that figure please?

Carmon B. Hardy, speaking at this past weekend's MHA Conference, said that the "American West had the highest divorce rate in the world--non-Mormon jurisdiction included." He attributed this high rate of divorce to difficult financial circumstances, hardships of living on the frontier, men abandoning their wives for the gold field, etc. Latter-day Saints were not immune to these challenges, indeed, Hardy commented that "Mormons were only reflecting what was going on around them."

Kathryn Daynes mentioned that many of these LDS women who petitioned for divorce later remarried into another plural marriage relationship. Have you read Daynes' book "More Wives Than One"? She was kind enough to autograph my copy.

[Orange Zodiac]

We are doing a mediocre job with the law we practice today.

My mistake. Usually proponents of polygamy claim it will end things like prostitution, infidelity, and a host of other social ills.

[top_cee]

my own belief with this topic(polygamy) is that it's never been a permanent part of the gospel just a necessary evil..whether or not it'll be practised during the millenium or during some other future time remains to be seen- I kind of agree with everyone here

why was polygamy nessasary?

it was necessary(a necesary evil!) but not NORMAL!!!Got a feeling that even if it's practised during the milenium it'll only take me a few seconds to get used to it!!LIKE MOST HERE I ASSUME

[Guest TJane]

How come a man in the Church if he goes and divorce his wife civilly without getting a Temple divorce, then can go and re-marry another lady in the Temple for time and all eternity?

Just in case this hasn't been addressed - a man may only be sealed in the temple to a second wife (after a civil divorce) IF his ex-wife allows it. Also, if he gets a temple divorce (or whatever they call an 'un-sealing'), he must get permission from the First Presidency to be sealed again in the temple to anyone.

I know this because my home teacher was in this exact situation a year ago. Since he's in a different ward now, I'm not sure what the result was, but I know that it is not as easy to get a second sealing as people generally think.

Jane

[Heidi]

Are you not LDS? I'm surprised at the number of LDS who obviously have not done any work for their ancestors. No one who has would ask. There is no committee that meets to decide which husband an 18th century woman in Spain gets...or which of his three wive's grandpa gets. Anyone who was married to anyone is sealed.

I just assumed the men sealed to men in the beginning was common knowledge. I can't elaborate further.

Alright, really I had no idea what you meant by "everybody being sealed to everybody" and now I understand that you mean "every deceased person for whom temple work is being done is sealed to every spouse they ever had". By the way, I am LDS and I have done work.

And about the men being sealed to other men, it obviously isn't common knowledge because I've never heard it, and neither had my husband when I asked if he knew and we've both been active members our whole lives. Please explain or at least give me a hint where to find out about this, because it's most intriguing.

[Pahoran]

Latter-days Ain't,

you wrote:

What numbers do you have that suggests that polygamy was performed to help take care of an overabundance of single women and not just because JS and others wanted to be able to have sex with a large number of women?

What documentation of any kind do you have to support the vile accusation that plural marriage happened "because JS and others wanted to be able to have sex with a large number of women?"

Put another way: do we have any reason AT ALL to conclude that the above assertion is anything other than a projection of your own upright moral character?

One of my own ancestors went on a mission only to return to find JS had made her one of his spirtual wives.

I challenge that assertion. Since the "spiritual wives" libel was fabricated by John C. Bennett, I put it to you that no ancestor of yours ever had such an experience.

[Compton's In] Sacred Loneliness indicates that some of the women sealed to Joseph were already married to other men.

So that's the source for your "personal family knowlege." Got it.

Regards,

Pahoran

[emaughan]

One of my own ancestors went on a mission only to return to find JS had made her one of his spirtual wives.

For shame! Telling tall tales to support your possition that others were liars and adulterers!? That is naughty.

This does help us understand why our critics believe such vile things of Joseph - they are projecting their own charater and motivations onto Joseph.

[Orange Zodiac]

I challenge that assertion.  Since the "spiritual wives" libel was fabricated by John C. Bennett, I put it to you that no ancestor of yours ever had such an experience.

It is documented in the journal of Orange Lysander Wight, son of Lyman Wight. It used to be contained in Infobases. And he does use the phrase spiritual wife. This is not a term that was created by John C. Bennett. This information from his girlfriend didn't seem to have too horrible of an impact on him though since he went right out and found a couple sisters who were willing to marry him.

Why should I doubt Todd Compton research?

If you doubt the number of women Joseph was married to just pull up his file on the family search website:

http://www.familysearch.org/

[Orange Zodiac]

Oops, sorry for the typo. My ancestor was not the woman that Joseph took as a spiritual wife but the boyfriend who returned to find that in his abscence his best girl had been courted and stolen away by the prophet. Sorry for the confusion. But it is not a "tall tale." I currently do not have Infobases installed on my computer. I don't even know if his journal is contained in the latest version and I can't find it online.

This does help us understand why our critics believe such vile things of Joseph - they are projecting their own charater and motivations onto Joseph.

Hmmm, so when you project vile assumptions onto people who oppose your view of reality we are to assume that it is a reflection of your character? Thanks for that insight.

Can you provide me with a noble reason why Joseph needed to marry young girls like the Partridge sisters? Do you seriously think that these girls could not have found other suitors?

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/2021-Emi...zaPartridge.htm