SteelMagnoliainTexas Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 One problem I have with the church and why I can't fully embrace the church is they have doctrines and creeds I'm now t sure I agree with. Like the forbidding of drinks like hot beverages. Many of these rules come from I believe are the commandments of men. I think it would be far better ,for example, to practice or develope patience, submission, moderation. Anybody can go about making up rules and setting up commandments. I think it's far better to work on making the new comer feel like she belongs. Honestly, it's all about Christ and "His" commandments. People come along and claim to have the same athority as Christ, and there is only one law giver and that's our Creator. Many people, many denominations desire this kind of control over the people, even claiming if they don't adhere to their athority then some sort of death angel will visit them?
Fether Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 2 hours ago, SteelMagnoliainTexas said: One problem I have with the church and why I can't fully embrace the church is they have doctrines and creeds I'm now t sure I agree with That is pretty much the reason everyone has a hard time joining the church. They can’t fully accept what we claim to be revealed truth. 2 hours ago, SteelMagnoliainTexas said: Many of these rules come from I believe are the commandments of men… I think it's far better to work on making the new comer feel like she belongs. Honestly, it's all about Christ and "His" commandments. People come along and claim to have the same athority as Christ, and there is only one law giver and that's our Creator. Many people, many denominations desire this kind of control over the people, even claiming if they don't adhere to their athority then some sort of death angel will visit them? This is what we are inviting people to wrestle with. Is it or God or of men? 2 hours ago, SteelMagnoliainTexas said: I think it would be far better ,for example, to practice or develope patience, submission, moderation. We ask this of our members too. In short… your not alone. What you described is the thinking of everyone I taught on my mission who didn’t end up joining the church. 1
Pyreaux Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Hot drinks were defined by Brigham Young as coffee and tea, that was helpful to know if soups and such were okay. We don't know what exactly is in these items that is bad. One thing in common is they both have caffeine, so we assume its Caffeine, but we don't really know so, you can drink caffeinated sodas all you want. I don't have the sources any more so don't call me out, but doctors say the #1 cause of stomach cancer is coffee, and they think that is probably because of the hot temperatures with which the coffee is consumed. So, after hearing that I always wondered if its not literally the temperature of the drink that's not good for you. I think we usually think the angel of death passing us over is a practical effect of healthy eating over time, as opposed to some curse that dooms you over one cup of coffee. However, health is not really the point of the revelation to me. Its just easy to explain it that way, it became a purification rite for temple. People would prepare themselves to go to the temple by not drinking in Israel, but the Israelites didn't have access to American substances like Coffee and Tobacco, so this is like an update. But the 4th verse was originally the 1st verse, concerning the designs and conspiracies of evil men in the last days, its to fight the propaganda of the lobbies that push tobacco and caffeine/energy drinks in our day. We know they exist. 1
Saint Bonaventure Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 "Why, this Satan's drink is so delicious that it would be a pity to let the infidels have exclusive use of it."--Legend claims this was stated regarding coffee by Pope Clement VIII 3
Saint Bonaventure Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 The Women's Petition Against Coffee--1674 An excerpt from the six-page manifesto: "... the Excessive use of that Newfangled, Abominable, Heathenish Liquor called COFFEE, which Riffling Nature of her Choicest Treasures, and Drying up the Radical Moisture, has so Eunucht our Husbands that they are become as unfruitful as those Desarts whence that unhappy Berry is said to be brought." Drink Coffee? Off With Your Head! : The Salt : NPR 2
MrShorty Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 @Saint Bonaventure I know I had heard "rumors" from Greg Prince that the temperance movement of the early 19th century included "hot drinks", but, having not actually read his book(s), I had never been able to find actual references, since almost all searches about the temperance movement focused on alcohol. It is interesting to actually read about some of the anti-coffee practices during the couple of centuries before the prophet Joseph Smith and the restoration. 2
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