Paul Osborne Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 God "is a Man". That is the word of God. Paul O
truth dancer Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Paul... Tell ya what... you prove that God exists and I will prove that God is NOT a man... The way I see it... the universe has spent approximately 13.7 billion years in the bringing forth of humans... we are about half way through the unfolding of our particular universe (lets not go to the idea of no time and space, and just stay in our reality for a sec... ) So... I don't see the human form as some ultimate end all of creation. FAR from it actually. Think how the human form has evolved in just a few million years. Why would anyone think that evolution or the development of the universe in the form of a human would just stop at this moment? Or why would anyone think God picked this particular human form to be the ultimate of all forms possible... (if God needed some sort of form at all which I think is extremely limiting and unlikely actually). I just really don't see it Paul.It is like someone trying to convince me that God is an ant or a mosqito or something. I mean, the universe is continually bringing forth new and more amazing things... it is so recent that life came into existence (as far as we know anyway)... how recent is our ability to communicate or have emotion or see or reflect upon ourselves. It is all so new that I think there is MUCH, MUCH more that we can't begin to imagine, yet alone have the capacity or ability to comprehend or understand. I just find it soooooo frustratingly limited to think of God as a man. It just soooooooo doesn't work for me. Now, I'm certainly NOT saying I'm right... it is just that my awareness of God is something WWWAAAYYYY beyond anything resembling a human male. ~dancer~
Parupunte_Medapani Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Look at the following passage from an Armenian document, "Concerning the Creation of Adam and the Incarnation of Christ our God" 14-31:When Adam departed and was walking around in the garden, the serpent spoke to Eve and said, "Why do you taste of all the trees, but from this one tree which is beautiful in appearance you do not taste?" Eve said, "Because God said, 'When you eat of that tree, you shall die.'" But the serpent said, "God has deceived you, for formerly God was man like you. When he ate of that fruit, he attained this great glory. That is why he told you not to eat, lest eating [it] you would become equal to God." When she heard the advice of the serpent, she wanted to become divine. She promptly picked and ate of the fruit. And immediately she became stripped. Now Adam came and saw his wife stripped, [and] he turned and said, "What is this you have done? Why did you eat of that fruit and become stripped?" Eve said, "This fruit is extremely sweet and tasty; you take also [and] eat." She wanted to deceive Adam. Adam said, "Shall I eat and be stripped like you?" And Eve said, "I ate too much and was stripped because of that. You eat just a little." Adam said, "I cannot taste it and become like you." Eve said, "Even if you eat too much, you will not become stripped, because God loves you." When Adam heard this he took the fruit into his hand, but he was afraid to eat. But Eve cried and begged him and said, "Eat and do not separate me from you. If we live, let us live together, and if we die, let us die together." Now Adam thoroughly examined the fruit in his hand for three hours. Now he would want to eat it, and then he would not. But when he looked at the woman's begging and [her] tears, he felt pity in his heart. When he saw her nakedness, he was afraid to eat. When he saw her beauty, he became foolish. Even though she was stripped, she was nevertheless beautiful because she was newly created and she glistened like a white pearl. But Adam, because of his love for the women, could not restrain himself and he ate of the fruit and stripped himself of the light. (Emphasis added.)And how could we forget..."And he gave many honours to those who had worshipped him. And he exalted them over those who had opposed him and withstood him. And he spread out the land on the right side into many lands. And he made them each into ranks, and each into aeons, and each into worlds, and each into heavens ', and each into firmaments, and each into heavens, and each into places', and each into places, and each into spaces. And he appointed laws for them. He gave to them commandments: "Abide in my word and I will give to you eternal life '. And I will send you powers. And I will strengthen you with spirits of power, and I will give you authority as you will. And no one will prevent you in what you wish. And you will beget for yourselves aeons and worlds and heavens, (so that) the intelligible spirits come and dwell in them. And you will become gods, and you will know that you are from God, and you will see him, that he is God within you, And he will dwell in your aeon." And the Lord of the All said these words to them. And he withdrew from them and concealed himself from them '." [The Untitled Gnostic Text] (Discovered among the Bruce Codex in 1769 after being sealed since ancient Christian times; Possibly dating from First Century Christianity; The first avalible translations of this ancient Christian Gnostic Text began in the mid-1800's. The above citation is from the 1892 translation of the text)
Neighbor Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Good point Paul:-), but will you also address my new topic about eternal progression and the pre-existance?Perhaps we might say that man is created in the image of God, and that we men are a mere dusty reflection of the True Man we were created to reflect, and that we might see our dustiness and repent of the dirt we think and instead accept the light of His Son that we might be more the men He created us to be.
Paul Osborne Posted March 20, 2005 Author Posted March 20, 2005 Medapani,Thanks for sharing that story. Adam and Eve communicated directly with God while they lived in the Garden of Eden. They heard the very voice of God
Paul Osborne Posted March 20, 2005 Author Posted March 20, 2005 I just really don't see it Paul.It is like someone trying to convince me that God is an ant or a mosqito or something. Really?Take comfort and know God is not a mosquito who sucks blood out of living animals. He doesn
truth dancer Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Paul.... Take comfort and know God is not a mosquito who sucks blood out of living animals. He doesn
Joe Schmoe Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 God "is a Man". That is the word of God. Paul OPaul, your logic leaves a lot to be desired, especially since it is way beyond reasonable, but if you really believe what you say, then you will have no trouble believing this:Jack is a man who climbed up a beanstalk and met a giant, Can you prove otherwise?Jack
Paul Osborne Posted March 20, 2005 Author Posted March 20, 2005 truth dancer,Where does Jesus fit into your picture? Are his teachings credible?Paul O
Paul Osborne Posted March 20, 2005 Author Posted March 20, 2005 Joe Schmoe,Jack in the beanstalk is just a story. The Man Christ Jesus and his Father are a testimony given by prophet and saint alike. Many a saint has laid down their life for the testimony that God lives. Men have claimed to have see him. Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon saw Jesus Christ standing right in front of them in the Kirtland temple. As far as I know, no one has seen Jack in the beanstalk or the giant. Paul O
truth dancer Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Paul.... Where does Jesus fit into your picture? Are his teachings credible?As far as they are translated correctly! I'm sort of joking but not really.Actually... It is difficult for me to identify exactly what Jesus taught. However, as I have pondered and prayed about what I consider to be the teachings of Jesus... (Sermon on the mount, beatitudes etc.) I have a come to a somewhat different understanding than many here. I find these teachings to be glimpses of the deepest truths possible... way beyond what many commonly consider. NOT that my way is the right way. It is just how it seems to me in my heart and mind.I think Jesus was most perfectly attuned to truth, and aligned with Source/God. ~dancer~
Paul Osborne Posted March 20, 2005 Author Posted March 20, 2005 I think Jesus was most perfectly attuned to truth, and aligned with Source/God. That
truth dancer Posted March 20, 2005 Posted March 20, 2005 Hi Paul...I have another question for you. If it is too off topic then never mind.. but you brought up the idea that God spoke to Adam. (Is this official doctrine)? I'm wondering how this fits in with our understanding of the history of language. I mean it seems that language was invented by the Summerians in the lower Mesopotamia around five thousand years ago... But IIRC, you have said that Adam and Eve spoke the Adamic language, as well as did God, in what is now Missouri about four thousand year ago... is this correct?I'm just trying to sort out how this all fits together... but again it may be too off topic... ~dancer~
PD1 Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 God "is a Man". That is the word of God. Paul O If God is a man, then why did God (Heb. el) tell Balaam to tell Balak that, "God is not a man, that he should lie
Parupunte_Medapani Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 God "is a Man". That is the word of God. Paul O If God is a man, then why did God (Heb. el) tell Balaam to tell Balak that, "God is not a man, that he should lie
Paul Osborne Posted March 21, 2005 Author Posted March 21, 2005 dancer,Well, at least we can agree that Jesus was in tune with God despite the teachings we have in the records of his ministry. It is clear that Jesus was a man, a perfect man. You will agree that his Father could be no less than that. Paul O
Paul Osborne Posted March 21, 2005 Author Posted March 21, 2005 If God is a man, then why did God (Heb. el) tell Balaam to tell Balak that, "God is not a man, that he should lie
truth dancer Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Paul...Well, at least we can agree that Jesus was in tune with God despite the teachings we have in the records of his ministry. It is clear that Jesus was a man, a perfect man. You will agree that his Father could be no less than that.I think Jesus was a human man... I think ALL people are divine in nature.I think the father of Jesus was Joseph; his mother was Mary; all human beings, divine in nature just like all of us. The idea of a God/man person was not exactly new with Jesus.... It is all over the place in mythology. I think it is metaphorical.... I don't think woman in those days who did not have sex could have children and I don't think God is a male who came down and had sex with Mary.It just sooooo doesn't work for me... Oh... one more thing... the idea of a perfect person. This is another thing that REALLY doesn't work for me. I don't understand this concept. It is like saying the sky is perfect. I do think there are those who understand/harmonize/resonate with Source/God/universal energy/divine essence better than others... I think Jesus truly understood the deepest truths and exemplified this in his life. ~dancer~
Paul Osborne Posted March 21, 2005 Author Posted March 21, 2005 Dancer,Well, you are left to wonder where Jesus is right now, and what he is doing - provided you believe he lives as one who divine. I believe because of him I will be divine.I guess you will have to wait and see. Paul O
dragonslayer Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 There is plenty in the bible for me to conclude that God is not just a man. While I can not "prove" anything to you beyond a shadow of a doubt, I will list some of these things so you may at least understand why I and other christians have different ideas than you about the God being a man.Here we see that communication between God, the angels, and man can be by some other means than just normal speech. I find these verses indicative of a higher form of communication, beyond vocal utterances. This is direct communication, the same way music alone can communicate with your soul with not a word being said:Revelation 19 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. *** ***Light factors into most of our equations of the physical world. Our universe wouldnt be what it is without this form of energy. God does not just create things with the elements at hand. He MADE the elements:James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. *** ***We also shall see that the elements will dissolve at His presence:2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.Matthew 13And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.Isaiah 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. *** ***Here is a good verse that seems to imply that God does not have human hands: 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. *** ***My point should be evident in these verses:John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.Paul, I believe I read on another post somewhere that you believe 2 Peter is in error. Do you include the above verses in this verdict?
Zakuska Posted March 21, 2005 Posted March 21, 2005 The probelm is you think that we think God is a mere-mortal-man like us. Which is wrong...He is a GLORIFIED MAN. An Immortal.Is God speaking like a trumpet or was the volume so loud that John used the metaphor to express this?
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