Exiled Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: I think you're still not getting it. All it would take is a extended affirmation of the spirit of Moroni :10, James 1:5, Alma 32, and a few conference talks tuned toward personal revelation while affirming historicity, but exercising that personal revelation trumps everything else. That the feeling within our heart is God speaking to us individually regardless of any other factors. That's all that's needed there is no need to repudiate anything all that needs to be done it's affirmation of certain portions of what is already Doctrine. I have already heard that consistently preached, it's just a question of making a strong affirmation of that teaching. It's no biggie. They're already dozens on this board even who understand my point. It's not about it being a fraud because it's not it's not about it being fiction because it's not. It's scripture. That's the way all scripture is worldwide. Fundamentalism is a very simple way of seeing a very complex world. It's totally binary, totally black and white. Do you think the question of whether or not nephites existed is a legitimate question? I know it is a black and white question but it has been an important question for church leadership since the beginning. The leadership has based the truthfulness of the church, in part, on answering the question in the affirmative. Ficticious nephites maybe wouldn't sell as well as real ones and moroni, alma, and the rest wouldn't get as much play with the public if the nephites were never real. Perhaps having a fictious story will make some believe their "spiritual experiences" are perhaps ficticious as well?
Exiled Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: That's binary thinking. You have to understand that there are different kinds of truths. I strongly suggest you read this article. It is the predominant way that philosophers today deal with a question of Truth and falsity. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-deflationary/ What science takes for truth is only one possible way of seeing it. Your philosophy is called positivism. Philosophically positivism has been dead since the 1930s. Go ahead and Google positivism. https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Logical-positivism-a-dead-philosophy I am just trying to help. This is rigorous philosophy it is not some kind of wishy-washy sentimental goop. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Dogmas_of_Empiricism I've read these articles. By the way do you think God exists? Or is that too binary?
mfbukowski Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Exiled said: I've read these articles. By the way do you think God exists? Or is that too binary? You want it in one word? That word would be "YES"! That is the binary answer for those who see nothing else. The rest is the non-binary part. As I have indicated before, my personal experience leads me to certainty that the proposition "God exists" is true. He is as real to me as you are since I have not met either of you personally and yet have interacted with both of you. I am certain you exist as well. I understand that as Wittgenstein and James and a host of other philosophers do, including Mormon philosophers like Paulsen, all of whom would probably agree with this statement by Wittgenstein, in adjusted terminology translated to "Mormonese", but here is the Wittgenstein: Quote It strikes me that a religious belief could only be something like a passionate commitment to a system of reference. Hence, although it's a belief, it really is a way of living, or a way of assessing life. It's passionately seizing hold of this interpretation. Instruction in a religious faith, therefore would have to take the form of a portrayal, a description, of that system of reference, while at the same time being an appeal to conscience. And this combination would have to result in the pupil himself, of his own accord, passionately taking hold of the system of reference. It would be as though someone were first to let me see the hopelessness of my situation and then showed me the means of rescue until, of my own accord, or not at any rate led to it by my instructor, I ran to it and grasped it. I had no instructor though to reach this conclusion- I found it for myself, so that portion does not apply to me. Perhaps that could be the case in my early childhood, probably like yours, being raised with a belief in God but then like you I gave that up. Further studies in philosophy led me to my present position, including : Quote a portrayal, a description, of that system of reference, while at the same time being an appeal to [ The light of Christ /The Spirit] conscience. And this combination would have to result in the pupil himself, of his own accord, passionately taking hold of the system of reference I worship the Ideal Human Paradigm within myself believing that He exists in embodied form at least in the person Jesus Christ, and that I can become like Him. I speak to Him deep within me, and understand on some level that I may be "talking to myself" as this Paradigm could be of my own making, but that makes no difference whatsoever. This is my life and my Paradigm, and my personal comitment to a description I believe that by being my self-defined "best human" that I become a better human by ridding myself of all that is not the "best" within me. I further believe that by ridding myself of those habits etc which I eschew, I reach closer to becoming like the Ideal Human, Jesus Christ as a Paradigm for all humanity I believe also that the Human Family must be ONE to become the highest possible manifestation of Divine Humanism and HOPE ("have faith") that one day we may actually be able to achieve this in the world and if not, by perfection in the afterlife, for which I also HOPE in my heart. I believe that certain ceremonies help us define life-changes and commitments we have made with ourselves and mark rites of passages toward full dedication to the Paradigm of the Perfection of Humanity. Mormons call these "ordinances" Now to translate all this into Mormonese, I believe in God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ as part of a divine family of which we are all members- in fact all of humanity is part of the family Through repentance Baptism and other ordinances we make covenants with God to become more like him, and after an eternity of learning prayer and dedication, we may indeed become like God and Jesus Christ. I believe these are the underlying most powerful principles of Mormonism which we seem to have lost in the pursuit of issues like Book of Mormon Geography which has virtually nothing to do with what is important. Interesting but in my book irrelevant. So there is the philosophy, your answer, and my opinion. Hope it helps someone.
mfbukowski Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Exiled said: I've read these articles. By the way do you think God exists? Or is that too binary? So we can discuss if Quine was right about the Dogmas of Empiricism?
Recommended Posts