LittleNipper Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, Vance said: What case would that be? The one already refuted? You refuted nothing! You merely say ---" No it ain't --- prove it, and don't waste our time!" Leave the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Book of Abraham out. and substantiate your "Mormon" theology from the Bible alone. Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: I'm to trying to demonstrate to YOU that there has only been ONE HIGH or CHIEF PRIEST at ONE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And that you haven't done. All have done is provide a link to a piece that presents evidence as to why Jesus could NOT be a high priest. Here is another clue for you. Caiaphas was the high priest when Jesus was sacrificed. If there can only be one at a time THEN JESUS WAS NOT IT!!!!!!, and His sacrifice was invalid. So, which is it? More than one at a time or Jesus' sacrifice being invalid. Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, LittleNipper said: You refuted nothing! You merely say ---" No it ain't --- prove it, and don't waste our time!" Leave the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Book of Abraham out. and substantiate your "Mormon" theology from the Bible alone. You presented nothing. Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 28 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Believers can be priests through Christ The Bible says they must be ordained like Aaron was. 28 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: but if CHRIST is the High Priest and He holds that spot eternally there is no need for others to do the very same. You are making an assumption with no basis. Nowhere does it say that there would be no need for other. 28 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: He not only performs the sacrificial rite ----He is the PERFECT sacrifice. True. BUT if He was a high priest at the time then there were more than one at the time. You lose that point. 28 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: This is why there is no longer a need for a Temple in Jerusalem. Yet the saints continued to go to the temple. What are you missing? You don't even know. 28 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: The curtain was torn from the top down. It is finished. You assume this has some to do with your argument. It doesn't. The saints, including the apostle Paul continued to go to the temple, why? You don't know. You are missing something and you have no clue. 28 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Of course unredeemed jews are not going to accept Jesus as their Messiah --- that has their (the Jew's) issue since Jesus hung on the cross at Calvary. What an inane and irrelevant comment! Link to comment
LittleNipper Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) The has only been one High Priest at a time in the Bible. Prove that there has been more than one at any one time BIBLICALLY! Let's begin with Aaron. While Aaron was the High Priest of the tabernacle, who officiated with him in that position? When Samuel was the High Priest in the temple at Jerusalem, who officiated with him? When Melchisedec was the High Priest of Salem, who officiated along with him? Edited September 24, 2017 by LittleNipper Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 14 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: You claim to be a "Christian" but you show disdain for the Bible. I disdain your worship of your interpretation of the Bible over the Holy Spirit of revelation and authority. 14 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Doesn't that send up any red flags for you. Nope! I am not a Bible worshiper. I have studied the Bible enough to know that Mormons believe MORE of the Bible than evangelicals do. 14 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: It certainly does for me. You say that transcribing the Bible is a total waste of your cyberspace... You just dropped a whole chapter WITHOUT COMMENT! THAT was the waste of cyber space. Why not just say "Hebrews Chapter 7"? 14 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: I can easily imagine that Jesus and the disciples and the Apostles would disagree with you entirely. Right back at you. 14 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: The point is still that Jesus (selected by God the Father to be the Chief Priest) still does and forever will hold that position. YES, Just as Melchizedek, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Elias, and Joshua, to name a few. 14 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: However, because Christ did it, we now have full access to the Holy of Holies through CHRIST JESUS unlike with Aaron of old. Only he had access but once a year. Here is another clue for you. Moses ordained Aaron and organized the Levitical priesthood, ergo Moses had a superior priesthood to Aaron. What was it? Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: The has only been one High Priest at a time in the Bible. Prove that there has been more than one at any one time BIBLICALLY! I already did. According to the Bible Caiaphas was the high priest when Jesus made his sacrifice. So you have one of two choices. 1) There can only be one high priest at a time, therefore Jesus sacrifice is invalidated because he wasn't a high priest at the time it occurred, or 2) There can be more that one high priest at a time. Which is it? Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: You refuted nothing! You merely say ---" No it ain't --- prove it, and don't waste our time!" Leave the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Book of Abraham out. and substantiate your "Mormon" theology from the Bible alone. You have yet to prove that there can only be one high priest at a time. Your continual repetition of this statement is not evidence nor proof. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say there can only be one high priest at a time. I have shown a clear and convincing argument otherwise, which you can NOT refute. Edited September 24, 2017 by Vance Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) As soon as you concede that there can be more than one high priest at a time, we can discuss some more interesting aspects found in Hebrews. Edited September 24, 2017 by Vance Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 18 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Who was/is Melchisedeck ---PLEASE SEE: https://www.gotquestions.org/Melchizedek.html FTA "Some propose that Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, or a Christophany. This is a possible theory, given that Abraham had received such a visit before. " Not proof, and easily refuted. FTA "This term order would ordinarily indicate a succession of priests holding the office. Ah, the old evangelical, it doesn't mean what it says trick. 18 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Who was/is Melchisedeck -- Please Consider: http://www.ad2004.com/Biblecodes/Hebrewmatrix/melchizedek.html FTA " Few mysteries of the Bible have been as intriguing as the mystery of the identity of Melchizedek. Who is he? Some have speculated that Melchizedek is Yeshua (Jesus), or the archangel Michael, or Shem the son of Noah, or just an ordinary human, or even another divine being as a type of Christ?" So, speculation is now your proof? Like I said, present and defend YOUR argument, not that of someone else. Link to comment
LittleNipper Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 And God the Father appreciated Caiaphas for doing what and how to Jesus? You believe that Caiaphas was equal to Our Lord Jesus Christ and that once the curtain twas torn in twain any sacrifice Caiaphas made counted for what exactly? You place "feelings" above the word of God? Don't you realize that that is exactly what LIBERALS DO! I hand you over to GOD. I'm done this discussion with you. Go read the Bible with a mind not clouded by materialism and hedonistic logic. You have not proven your case. Link to comment
Vance Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: And God the Father appreciated Caiaphas for doing what and how to Jesus? Was he the high priest, as the Bible says or was he not? Quote You believe that Caiaphas was equal to Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . STOP!! being an ridiculous! Was Caiaphas the high priest, as the Bible says or was he not? Quote and that once the curtain twas torn in twain any sacrifice Caiaphas made counted for what exactly? The Bible is silent on this subject. Anything you add is speculation. Quote You place "feelings" above the word of God? No, I place the witness of the Spirit above YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Bible. Quote Don't you realize that that is exactly what LIBERALS DO! Where did Paul get his gospel? From the Bible? No. He claim otherwise. Do I have to quote it for you? Quote I hand you over to GOD. I have always been in his care. Quote I'm done this discussion with you. I know, it frustrates you to lose. The Bible just doesn't support your position. You have to add opinion and conjecture. Quote Go read the Bible with a mind not clouded by materialism and hedonistic logic. Well, it is clear that you don't read the Bible with an open mind, letting the spirit whisper to you. Quote You have not proven your case. Actually, it is you that haven't proven you case. You can't honestly answer the question, "Was Caiaphas the high priest, as the Bible says or was he not? " Edited September 24, 2017 by Vance Link to comment
LittleNipper Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 A contemporary of Martin Luther was John Calvin. He differed from Luther in several aspects. While Martin came from a working class german family, John was from a well to do French family. While Martin promoted Faith to a fault, John promoted predestination. Please see: http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/people/theologians/john-calvin.html Link to comment
Anakin7 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 LittleNipper, and your reason to tell us this is ?. Question what room of christianity [ Church denomination ] do you belong, where do you worship ?. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Doctrine Washing My Garment In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Link to comment
Anakin7 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) LittleNipper please explain your last post, thank you. The Atonement It is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited September 25, 2017 by Anakin7 Link to comment
Gray Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 16 hours ago, LittleNipper said: You refuted nothing! You merely say ---" No it ain't --- prove it, and don't waste our time!" Leave the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Book of Abraham out. and substantiate your "Mormon" theology from the Bible alone. 16 hours ago, Vance said: And that you haven't done. All have done is provide a link to a piece that presents evidence as to why Jesus could NOT be a high priest. Here is another clue for you. Caiaphas was the high priest when Jesus was sacrificed. If there can only be one at a time THEN JESUS WAS NOT IT!!!!!!, and His sacrifice was invalid. So, which is it? More than one at a time or Jesus' sacrifice being invalid. You guys might as well be arguing over what flavor of ice cream is best. You have two different theological interpretations, there is no standard to "prove" which is objectively right. Link to comment
LittleNipper Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 13 hours ago, Gray said: You guys might as well be arguing over what flavor of ice cream is best. You have two different theological interpretations, there is no standard to "prove" which is objectively right. The Bible is right and anything contrary to what the entire Bible says is wrong. Link to comment
LittleNipper Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Anakin7 said: LittleNipper, and your reason to tell us this is ?. Question what room of christianity [ Church denomination ] do you belong, where do you worship ?. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Doctrine Washing My Garment In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 I attend an Independent Fundamentalist Bible Believing Institution. Which was part of the Sunday School Union to which John Wanamaker (philanthropist and department store tycoon) was instrumental in promoting. Edited September 26, 2017 by LittleNipper Link to comment
Anakin7 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Thank you, I myself am a former Methodist [Baptized as an infant], as a young teenager 13 -14 I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior in a park here in my city where I live and accepted the alter call and was baptized by a Fundamentalist Independent Baptist minister/preacher at a Fundamentalist Independent Baptist church. Became a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints at age 17. After receiving anti LDS polemical material after High School, with prayer and research/study at a local Methodist Seminary I remain a LDS Sentinel, Son of Thunder Kryptonian, Saint/Christian. Currently serve as a local congregational missionary for The Lord of Life, Lord, Redeemer, God, King, Master Jesus Christ. May True Grace be with you and those you love. The Atonement It is The Central Doctrine Washing My garment In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Link to comment
Gray Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 11 hours ago, LittleNipper said: The Bible is right and anything contrary to what the entire Bible says is wrong. You mean your personal interpretation of the Bible. Link to comment
LittleNipper Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Gray said: You mean your personal interpretation of the Bible. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. What is your interpretation? Link to comment
Gray Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 7 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. What is your interpretation? In broad strokes. God is the creator. In the specifics of the story, most of it is myth and symbols. Adam and Eve are symbolic representations of humanity. It's a story about our loss of innocence - almost a coming of age story. Link to comment
LittleNipper Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Gray said: In broad strokes. God is the creator. In the specifics of the story, most of it is myth and symbols. Adam and Eve are symbolic representations of humanity. It's a story about our loss of innocence - almost a coming of age story. And this is because the book of Mormon is myth? I guess that Jesus lied? Jesus clearly said, “As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.” (ref. Matthew 24:37, Luke 17:26). So if the days of Noah were not real, then just insert the word “Fictional” into the verse. It reads like this: “As it was in the [Fictional] days of Noah, so will it be at the [Fictional] coming of the Son of Man.” Who in their right mind tells you about a future day that is made up? but that’s exactly what Jesus did IF the story of Noah was made up. Therefore, Noah is real or Jesus is lying. He also referenced Adam and Eve indirectly by saying “Have you not read that He who made them in the beginning made them male and female? For this reason a man shall leave mother and father and be joined to his wife.” The bold text is a direct quote from Genesis 2:24 (ref. Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:7). Edited September 27, 2017 by LittleNipper Link to comment
Gray Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 38 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: And this is because the book of Mormon is myth? I guess that Jesus lied? Jesus clearly said, “As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.” (ref. Matthew 24:37, Luke 17:26). Jesus referencing Adam and Eve or Noah doesn't mean he considered them to be real people - I reference them too. And it's really irrelevant whether he thought of them that way or not. 38 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: So if the days of Noah were not real, then just insert the word “Fictional” into the verse. It reads like this: “As it was in the [Fictional] days of Noah, so will it be at the [Fictional] coming of the Son of Man.” That doesn't change his point in the least. Of course if you're saying Jesus has to be flawlessly prescient, he predicts the end in his own generation, at least according to Matthew. 38 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Who in their right mind tells you about a future day that is made up? but that’s exactly what Jesus did IF the story of Noah was made up. Therefore, Noah is real or Jesus is lying. That's silly and a very naive reading. Jesus didn't say Noah was real. Furthermore, Jesus had no way of knowing to begin with! 38 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: He also referenced Adam and Eve indirectly by saying “Have you not read that He who made them in the beginning made them male and female? For this reason a man shall leave mother and father and be joined to his wife.” The bold text is a direct quote from Genesis 2:24 (ref. Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:7). Your conclusions do not follow from your premises. Link to comment
Vance Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 On 9/24/2017 at 9:52 PM, LittleNipper said: A contemporary of Martin Luther was John Calvin. He differed from Luther in several aspects. While Martin came from a working class german family, John was from a well to do French family. While Martin promoted Faith to a fault, John promoted predestination. Please see: http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/people/theologians/john-calvin.html John Calvin, another purveyor of false doctrine. Link to comment
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