Revelations come "after the manner of their language"

[Meerkat]

2 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Appreciate how you’ve organized the discussion, Meerkat.  And thank you for sharing a bit of your story.  My brief thoughts, in order as you’ve presented.

Q1 – I think you have the cart before the horse.  In the Bible, God initiates, we respond (1 John 4:19).  And faith is a gift, not something we create out of our own volition (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Q2 – Interesting you were raised Lutheran but didn’t read the Bible.  Guessing you weren’t part of the LCMS, but maybe I’m wrong about that.

Q3 – No worries

Q4 – I always find it curious when LDS praise the Protestant Reformation as a stepping stone to Joseph Smith.  A while back I kicked off a thread about it.  Mfbukowski had it right, from an LDS perspective (4^th post down).  And you don’t hear me say that often!

Q5 – Agree with you.

Q6 – Salaried CES professionals.  Interesting tidbit, every one of them had an Ed. D.  A curious degree, signifying no real depth in, well, anything.  (And CES's fondness for the Ed. D. extends well beyond Seattle, I'm told.)  But what do I know, I only have a bachelor’s in business with an accounting emphasis (and I went on to get my CPA). 

Q7 – I hope that’s true, perhaps even right here.

Q8 – Not quite the logic of 1 John 4.  But to your point—it works for you (and you think it would work for me too).  Really though, the question shouldn't be what works for you or me--the proper question is what works for God.  And when we elevate our feelings, other people (e.g., Monson), other books to be on par with the Bible, things tend to go sideways, sooner or later.  But that’s just my experience.

Enjoy your Sunday, Meerkat.

--Erik

Coming back on a few points:

1.  I agree that Grace is a free gift, but it must be freely received.  There are two sides to the Gift.  Matt. 7:7-11 "7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
            8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
            9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
            10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
            11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

4.  I don't see what is curious about it.  It seems logical to me.  God creates in stages, line upon line.  I have always found it curious that Protestants complain Mormons believe in works, not Grace.  I believe some of these differences can be chalked up to semantics. They quote Ephesians 2:8-9 but place no emphasis on verse 10.  Why not consider James in the discussion of faith and works.  Both have an important place, imo. 

[Five Solas]

6 hours ago, Meerkat said:

Coming back on a few points:

1.  I agree that Grace is a free gift, but it must be freely received.  There are two sides to the Gift.  Matt. 7:7-11 "7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
            8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
            9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
            10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
            11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

4.  I don't see what is curious about it.  It seems logical to me.  God creates in stages, line upon line.  I have always found it curious that Protestants complain Mormons believe in works, not Grace.  I believe some of these differences can be chalked up to semantics. They quote Ephesians 2:8-9 but place no emphasis on verse 10.  Why not consider James in the discussion of faith and works.  Both have an important place, imo. 

Much as I'm enjoying it, we've wandered far from the original topic and sooner or later the mods are going to lose patience.  But check your messages.

:0)

--Erik

[Meerkat]

3 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Much as I'm enjoying it, we've wandered far from the original topic and sooner or later the mods are going to lose patience.  But check your messages.

:0)

--Erik

Actually, I think our discussion is on point.  We are discussing "Revelations come 'after the manner of their own language.'"  You say revelation comes by reading the scriptures.  I say revelation also comes by asking and from the influence of the Holy Ghost.  Well, maybe Grace and works are a little off topic.  Not by much though.  You believe, if I get your position, that God will reveal His will to whomever he wants to, with no regard to actions on their part. Hence, saved by Grace and not works.  My theory is that works are equally important, maybe even a little more so, if we want revelation to come to us in our language.  I cite James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."