The Fall

[CV75]

13 hours ago, SamIam said:

I'm probably being too generous but will give a second chance with a shorter response to see if there is any genuine interest...Consider upon this set of verses:

 

So he is addressing the good guys...the members of the church.  Why would they be classed as murderers if they had not actually taken another life.  We surely don't imagine that the entire congregation even has the potential to be guilty of another man's life and yet Alma is defining a perspective that makes them murderers.  Why?

Here are a couple of other verses from the same chapter that add to the weighty matters:

 

He speaks to some who are not members but he gives them the manner in which they too can avoid being classed as murderers - by repentance.  How does repentance enable you or I to avoid being classed as murderers - how could we be classed as murderers anyway - we haven't killed anyone....

In verses 6-9, he is connecting, in principle, the act of forgetting the Lord’s deliverance from spiritual death (deep sleep, darkness, bands, chains, destruction) with murder. In verses 10-14 he is similarly connecting, in principle, believing the Lord with being saved, or spiritual birth and rebirth (in opposition to death).

The questions in verses can be answered as a murderer or as a savior “upon the mountains”. Both Alma and his father were saviors upon the mountains (see verse 3 for the consecration of Alma by his father, which hearkens back to his father’s calling to remember by Abinadi in Alma 12:21 and chapter 15). He is calling the murderers, those who are not acting as saviors upon the mountains as they should, to repentance. Alma the younger considered himself a murderer in this regard (Alma 36:14).

Now depending on how much light we have, we can be saviors upon Mount Zion or spiritual murders, even leading others into Perdition. But typically we are spiritual saviors and murderers by degrees.

[SamIam]

6 hours ago, CV75 said:

In verses 6-9, he is connecting, in principle, the act of forgetting the Lord’s deliverance from spiritual death (deep sleep, darkness, bands, chains, destruction) with murder. In verses 10-14 he is similarly connecting, in principle, believing the Lord with being saved, or spiritual birth and rebirth (in opposition to death).

The questions in verses can be answered as a murderer or as a savior “upon the mountains”. Both Alma and his father were saviors upon the mountains (see verse 3 for the consecration of Alma by his father, which hearkens back to his father’s calling to remember by Abinadi in Alma 12:21 and chapter 15). He is calling the murderers, those who are not acting as saviors upon the mountains as they should, to repentance. Alma the younger considered himself a murderer in this regard (Alma 36:14).

Now depending on how much light we have, we can be saviors upon Mount Zion or spiritual murders, even leading others into Perdition. But typically we are spiritual saviors and murderers by degrees.

You have brushed up against the essence of what we are seeking but it does not reveal itself as an element of the Fall until we can tie these principles to Adam and Eve.  For the purpose of making that connection we need to simplify that when those that have transgressed are in an unrepentant state they are known as murderers.  However, who or what is the object of their designation as such?  Who do they murder if they remain unrepentant? What is the innocent blood that is shed as a result of their being murderers?

[SamIam]

To more clearly point to the type or shadow that illustrates best these tie-ins to the Fall, I am going to summarize the Avenger of Blood concept from the Old testament without the verses but with one or two other additions.

Deuteronomy 19 establishes both sides of the equation.  The murderer who is an accidental man slayer is one where circumstances beyond his knowledge occur that end with someone shedding their innocent blood.  The intentional murderer is one who plans and intentionally rises up to slay a person of innocent blood. It does not matter which one one is in the period immediate to the death of the slain.  This person must flee to the City of Refuge or risk being located by the avenger of blood.  Who is the avenger of Blood?  This is one of those things that means practically nothing to non-Jews - not our culture.  However to make these connections we need to understand the significance of the avenger of blood. Please note:

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The next of kin who takes on the duty of the avenger of blood was honor bound to avenge the spilt blood of his family:

(Hebrew "go'el"): The Hebrew name for the clansman, "next of kin," upon whom devolved the duties: (1) of avenging, on the person of the murderer, the blood of a murdered kinsman—in this capacity the more specific term "go'el ha-dam" (blood-avenger) was generally used—and (2) of redeeming the property or the person of a relative that had fallen into debt.

Unavenged blood "cried out" for vengeance to God (Gen. iv. 10; Isa. xxvi. 21; Ezek. xxiv. 7 et seq.; Job xvi. 18). The Avenger of Blood, then, was regarded as the representative, not only of the murdered man's family, but of YHWH Himself, who was the highest avenger (Ps. ix. 13 [A. V. 12]). (http://www.thefullwiki.org/AVENGER_OF_BLOOD_(Jewish_Encyclopedia)

The Avenger was the next of kin and was required by honor to avenge his dead relation. As well, he was the representative of Jehovah himself.

The murderer must avoid this person at all costs as there are no mitigating circumstances and the Avenger can slay the murderer for any cause and in fact is duty bound to do so. However, if the manslayer can make it to the City of Refuge then he appeals to the High priest to protect him.  The High Priest conducts an investigation and if the murderer is found to have intentionally murdered, then the high priest turns the murderer over to the avenger that justice can be served.  If the murderer is found innocent of intentional murder then he can stay in the City of Refuge, and must do so to be safe from the avenger,  until the high priest dies.  Here is some Jewish insight:

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Who lives in the Cities of Refuge? The Levites. What did the Levites do with their time? They worked in the Beit HaMikdash, (temple) they sang in the Beit HaMikdash, and they were the teachers of Torah. The person who killed unintentionally would now have the opportunity to get an appreciation of what one can do with life. Such an experience will forever change the person. Seeing a Levi who spends his evening, morning, and afternoon immersed in Torah and mitzvot will change his view of life.

…The cities of refuge are under the jurisdiction of the Levites, and more specifically, the High Priest. When an unintentional killer dwells within the city of refuge he becomes the “property” of the High Priest. He lives within his city and therefore belongs to him. Although by no means a slave, he still lives under the dominion of the High Priest. The same law governing the release of a permanent Jewish slave upon the death of his master applies here. The unintentional killer may leave only upon the death of his “master”, the High Priest….

The Torah is telling us that there is some connection between the sin of the unintentional manslayer and the Kohen Gadol(High Priest) , by linking the exile of the manslayer with the death of the Kohen Gadol… In fact, the Talmud indicates that it is the death of the Kohen Gadol which provides atonement for the manslayer.

Makkoth 11b It is the death of the [high] priest that procures the atonement.(http://www.betemunah.org/elul.html)

So even though innocent of intent, he nonetheless is remanded over to the High Priest for a lifetime of protection as long as he remains the servant of the high priest.  Only after the high priest dies can he return to the land of his inheritance.  Now to cut this short I am going to lay the fall imagery over the avenger of blood scenario.

In a nut shell in the avenger of blood concepts, The avenger of blood is God the Father who is honor bound to avenge the death of the innocent blood of his nearest kin. His role precludes the extension of mercy at this point.  This is the set of conditions that excludes God the Father from offering mercy.  He is honor bound to defend his Son who has shed his innocent blood. There are no bounds.  Whether intentional or not he must slay the slayers. These are the conditions that define why he would cease to be God if mercy were to rob justice.  His role as the avenger does not brook mercy.  There are reasons but unless someone asks the question we'll not go there for brevities sake.

His nearest Kin is Jesus Christ who plays 3 roles. He is always the one of innocent blood that is slain but for some he is intentionally slain, others a complete and unintended accident. However, he also plays the role of the High Priest that atones for the sins of those who unintentionally slew the one of innocent blood. All consistent with the plan of salvation so far...

Every single person who seeks the sanctuary of the city of refuge and thus hopes to be protected by the high priest is a murderer.  Everyone of them are slayers.  This is mankind who has come to this earth from the place of our first inheritance living with our Father in Heaven.  We had to flee and we are pursued by the Father and everyone of his children is found on the side of the demands of justice and the requirements that the Father avenge his innocent son.  Unless, we repent and subject ourselves to the protection of His Son only then are we safe.

It is also the High Priest’s role to turn those determined as intentional slayers upon their arrival to the City of Refuge back to the law of the Avenger who has decreed an unalterable death for those who would knowingly shed the innocent blood of the Savior. They are the sons of perdition.

We are the accepted into the city of refuge as acknowledged slayers of innocent blood, whether intentional or accidentally, is determined by our lives as the evidence is collected to validate the nature of our hearts. If we are not willing to stay near the high priest, the Avenger can take us at anytime. This earth and our lifetime is the City of refuge. We have been sent from the homes of our inheritance in the celestial kingdom until we can be atoned for by the High Priest. After this then we have the opportunity to return back to the home of our inheritance.

Adam and Eve fall under the banner of this principle.  It was imperative that they were in the Garden innocent having forgotten the council of Abraham were all sustained the plan.  As innocents they were unaware that partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was going to result in the death of the Savior.  There was only one way to recover the children once they had partaken of the fruit and that was by the shedding of innocent blood.  Thus, all mankind, once they reach the age of accountability become classed with the murderers when they sin - no matter how innocent the sin - as there is no other name under heaven whereby they can be saved and that only upon the conditions of the shedding of his innocent blood.  All mankind is subject to the blood of Christ. We were provided a probationary period to validate the charge against us.  Was his blood shed to our condemnation because we chose the world and ignored his sacrifice in our behalf? If so these and the like receive a telestial reward.  Did we support Christ but chose not to be obedient to all of his commands perhaps being led astray by the devices of men, these terrestrial. Were we valiant, did we do all that we could, once we realized the sacrifice was made in our behalf, to honor the Savior, to build up his kingdom to defend his name and his honor.  These are they who sins he bore and they are his and receive a celestial reward.

I'll leave off here summing up that this was why Adam and Eve received a death sentence and were cast from the Garden of Eden.  Their actions resulted in the slaying of innocent blood.  This is only part of the story and sounds harsh without putting it together with all of the other portions that lead to eternal life but that answers the question of the OP.  There is so much missing from above that should lead to a dozen questions. However, we'll see.

Edited April 9, 2017 by SamIam

[CV75]

18 hours ago, SamIam said:

You have brushed up against the essence of what we are seeking but it does not reveal itself as an element of the Fall until we can tie these principles to Adam and Eve.  For the purpose of making that connection we need to simplify that when those that have transgressed are in an unrepentant state they are known as murderers.  However, who or what is the object of their designation as such?  Who do they murder if they remain unrepentant? What is the innocent blood that is shed as a result of their being murderers?

It is obvious that it is Christ, D&C 132:27 describing the worst degree of spiritual murder. Not all murderers are murderers to thie degree of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, but all accountable people are murderers to some degree.

[SamIam]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

It is obvious that it is Christ, D&C 132:27 describing the worst degree of spiritual murder. Not all murderers are murderers to thie degree of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, but all accountable people are murderers to some degree.

Absolutely correct.  Hence why the result of a fall finds Adam and Eve and us placed in a telestial level assignment - the highest level any murderer can ultimately hope for during a probationary state especially where he finds sufficient occasions to provide for a more exacting assessment for a permanent assignment.  Hopefully we all seek reassignment to a celestial state which requires all we have to offer.

Edited April 9, 2017 by SamIam