An Interesting Curiousity: The Evolution of Egyptus's Name in the BoA

[Johnnie Cake]

In the The John Whitmer Historical Association Journal, Brent Metcalf has published an interesting article relating the evolution of the name of the Ham's wife Egyptus.  In the original manuscripts she is named Zep-tah but through various transcripts her name continues to evolves from one name to another through the various manuscripts (I believe there were 3 of them) right down to finally becoming Egyptus when published in the Times and Seasons. 

 

Here are the various version to her name as it goes through the various changes.

Egyptus  is first given the name of  Zep-tah it is then changed to Zeptah  and then to → Jep-tah then to → Gep-tah then to → Egeptah, and finally to the current variation of Egyptus.  

It is a easy short read but gives some interesting inside into the process that brought us the Book of Abraham.  Thought some may may enjoy
 

 

http://www.mormonstudiespodcast.com/podcast/Brent-Lee-Metcalfe_The-Curious-Textual-History-of-Egyptus-the%20Wife%20of%20Ham_article_JWHA-Journal_14-2.pdf

Edited January 27, 2016 by Johnnie Cake

[Matthew J. Tandy]

Yup.

And some interesting potential etymology for Zep-tah too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptus

 

From the wiki: 

Quote

 

This variant name could very well reflect the Egyptian name SЗt-Ptḥ, "Daughter-of-Ptah" (the -t- in SЗt is silent) which is known from the Middle Kingdom into the late period.[7] Moreover, This recalls the syncretic mythology in the Late Egyptian Hieratic story of "Astarte and the Sea," wherein Semitic Astarte is also called "Daughter-of-Ptah."[8] She is, therefore, the equivalent of Hathor (E.g. Ḥt-Ḥr "House-of-Horus [Sky]"), who is also the daughter of Ptah,[9] and who is the same constellation as Virgo, and which is the first month of the Inundation season (on the Palermo Stone, each king is accompanied by his mother's name and by the measured height of the inundation in September[10]). For, after all, "when this woman discovered the land it was under water" (Abr 1:24). Moreover, Hathor is the Eye and Mother of Re, the first king of Egypt (Book of the Divine Cow).

The "Mother of the King of Upper & Lower Egypt" (mwt niswt-biti or mwt niswt), i.e., of the living king, was addressed as "God's daughter" sЗt nṯr,[11] namely the daughter of Ptah, as is the apparent case here with Zeptah/Egyptus, who is both mother of the king of Egypt and the granddaughter of Noah. This is significant since Ptah is a parallel for Noah in that, as the Blacksmith-God of Thebes (Hephaistos-Vulcan), he is the equivalent of the Phoenician Craftsman-God Khousor, which is Ugaritic Kṯr, Kothar, Kothar-wa-Khasis, "The-Very-Skillful-and-Intelligent-One," which is the same character as the Sumero-Akkadian Noahs: Utnapishtim (in the Gilgamesh Epic), Atra-Ḫasīs, and Ziusudra (Khousor = Ptah at Ugarit).[12]

 

 

[Johnnie Cake]

1 hour ago, Matthew J. Tandy said:

Yup.

And some interesting potential etymology for Zep-tah too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptus

 

From the wiki: 

 

Thanks for the wiki quote.  But isn't it a bit circular  and odd to quote a Wikipedia article that was written for Mormons that quotes the BoA to support the BoA?  While this may be adequate for you it certainly falls short of what I would find as convincing, I would prefer some unbiased non-circular reference.

[volgadon]

25 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Thanks for the wiki quote.  But isn't it a bit circular  and odd to quote a Wikipedia article that was written for Mormons that quotes the BoA to support the BoA?  While this may be adequate for you it certainly falls short of what I would find as convincing, I would prefer some unbiased non-circular reference.

Are you sure that you know what circular logic means?

[Matthew J. Tandy]

The point being that the original name of Zep-tah does appear to be of Egyptian origin. That's a nice evidence for the Book of Abraham as representing a legitimate ancient record or narrative (depending on your view).

It does not appear to mean what the Book of Abraham says "which, in the Chaldea, signifies Egypt, which signifies, that which is forbidden." The daughter technically doesn't appear to originally be named, so perhaps it is referring to the meaning of the daughter's name. The sentence structure is not great.

Still, that their is an ancient tie-in, and the verse itself is vague on what signifies "that which is forbidden", is interesting. 

 

[Johnnie Cake]

27 minutes ago, volgadon said:

Are you sure that you know what circular logic means?

I do and I hope you'll note that I specifically used the term "Circular" not "Circular Logic"

Edited January 27, 2016 by Johnnie Cake

[Johnnie Cake]

23 minutes ago, Matthew J. Tandy said:

The point being that the original name of Zep-tah does appear to be of Egyptian origin. That's a nice evidence for the Book of Abraham as representing a legitimate ancient record or narrative (depending on your view).

It does not appear to mean what the Book of Abraham says "which, in the Chaldea, signifies Egypt, which signifies, that which is forbidden." The daughter technically doesn't appear to originally be named, so perhaps it is referring to the meaning of the daughter's name. The sentence structure is not great.

Still, that their is an ancient tie-in, and the verse itself is vague on what signifies "that which is forbidden", is interesting. 

 

Thank you for that clarification...

[volgadon]

1 minute ago, Johnnie Cake said:

I do and I hope you'll note that I specifically used the term "Circular" not "Circular Logic"

I'm not certain that you do, because the quoted verse is not functioning as you claim. A different source is being compared to what it says. How do you think evidence is supposed to be used?

[Johnnie Cake]

23 minutes ago, volgadon said:

I'm not certain that you do, because the quoted verse is not functioning as you claim. A different source is being compared to what it says. How do you think evidence is supposed to be used?

So using the book of Abraham as a reference to support the book of Abraham is fine with you...OK

 

But rather than go off into the weeds...what are your thoughts with respect to the OP Volgadon...I'd really be interested in your thoughts and insights

Edited January 27, 2016 by Johnnie Cake

[volgadon]

4 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

So using the book of Abraham as a reference to support the book of Abraham is fine with you...OK

 

But rather than go off into the weeds...what are your thoughts with respect to the OP Volgadon...I'd really be interested in your thoughts and insights

It does not use a BoA reference to support the BoA. It uses other sources to support the Abraham 1:24 reference. You can disagree with the quality of the evidence, but it does not function in the way that you claim. If we cannot clear up something as basic and neutral as that, I'm not sure that you are interested in discussing the topic in good faith.

[Johnnie Cake]

31 minutes ago, volgadon said:

It does not use a BoA reference to support the BoA. It uses other sources to support the Abraham 1:24 reference. You can disagree with the quality of the evidence, but it does not function in the way that you claim. If we cannot clear up something as basic and neutral as that, I'm not sure that you are interested in discussing the topic in good faith.

Happy to admit when I mis spoke, thanks for holding me accountable, you're correct

[Robert F. Smith]

On 1/27/2016 at 1:12 PM, Matthew J. Tandy said:

Yup.

And some interesting potential etymology for Zep-tah too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptus

 

From the wiki: 

Quote

This variant name could very well reflect the Egyptian name SЗt-Ptḥ, "Daughter-of-Ptah" (the -t- in SЗt is silent) which is known from the Middle Kingdom into the late period.[7] Moreover, This recalls the syncretic mythology in the Late Egyptian Hieratic story of "Astarte and the Sea," wherein Semitic Astarte is also called "Daughter-of-Ptah."[8] She is, therefore, the equivalent of Hathor (E.g. Ḥt-Ḥr "House-of-Horus [Sky]"), who is also the daughter of Ptah,[9] and who is the same constellation as Virgo, and which is the first month of the Inundation season (on the Palermo Stone, each king is accompanied by his mother's name and by the measured height of the inundation in September[10]). For, after all, "when this woman discovered the land it was under water" (Abr 1:24). Moreover, Hathor is the Eye and Mother of Re, the first king of Egypt (Book of the Divine Cow).

The "Mother of the King of Upper & Lower Egypt" (mwt niswt-biti or mwt niswt), i.e., of the living king, was addressed as "God's daughter" sЗt nṯr,[11] namely the daughter of Ptah, as is the apparent case here with Zeptah/Egyptus, who is both mother of the king of Egypt and the granddaughter of Noah. This is significant since Ptah is a parallel for Noah in that, as the Blacksmith-God of Thebes (Hephaistos-Vulcan), he is the equivalent of the Phoenician Craftsman-God Khousor, which is Ugaritic Kṯr, Kothar, Kothar-wa-Khasis, "The-Very-Skillful-and-Intelligent-One," which is the same character as the Sumero-Akkadian Noahs: Utnapishtim (in the Gilgamesh Epic), Atra-Ḫasīs, and Ziusudra (Khousor = Ptah at Ugarit).[12]

I wrote that originally and put it in the Wikipedia.  It is merely a short excerpt from my much longer Commentary on the Book of Abraham, which remains unpublished.

[Robert F. Smith]

23 hours ago, Matthew J. Tandy said:

The point being that the original name of Zep-tah does appear to be of Egyptian origin. That's a nice evidence for the Book of Abraham as representing a legitimate ancient record or narrative (depending on your view).

It does not appear to mean what the Book of Abraham says "which, in the Chaldea, signifies Egypt, which signifies, that which is forbidden." The daughter technically doesn't appear to originally be named, so perhaps it is referring to the meaning of the daughter's name. The sentence structure is not great.

Still, that their is an ancient tie-in, and the verse itself is vague on what signifies "that which is forbidden", is interesting. 

In early Egyptian  SЗt-Ptḥ, "Daughter-of-Ptah" would have been ZЗt-Ptḥ, "Daughter-of-Ptah," and that is the way it is spelled in the Pyramid Texts.

When you investigate the etymology of "Egypt," you will see that it converges with the name for Ptah and his temple (as capital of Egypt by synecdoche), thus fitting in well with the ancient Egyptian love of punning (wordplay).