ERayR Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 It depends entirely on your concept of God, and what you think it means to say that God creates things. If you imagine God to be a bearded man with Play Doh hand sculpting each animal, then you will find evolution entirely incompatible with your faith. If your view of God is more nuanced, then there is no difficulty reconciling the two. I imagine God to be that lump of Play Doh to be molded into whatever form I want with whatever powers I ascribe to him. Now that was easy. I am free!!!!
ERayR Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 That's why I used it as the example. Languages can be fun at times. I'll have 4 bananas, 3 rutabagas and 6 swedes. Please deliver.
MormonFreeThinker Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I'll have 4 bananas, 3 rutabagas and 6 swedes. Please deliver. Is that a human or a chimp?
thesometimesaint Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 So, you cant really claim then that God is not part of science if it is truly Agnostic. You cant have it both ways. If you say its agnostic but then say God cant be part of it then you are being atheistic, not agnostic. Science does NOT deal with any God. It doesn't say he/she/it exists, and it doesn't that he/she/it doesn't exist. He/she/it is irrelevant to science. Science works whatever the religion, or lack there of, of the person using it. Pi is not equal to exactly three regardless of what some religionist claims. Use the Dictionary. ag·nos·tic[ag-nos-tik] a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic: Socrates was an agnostic on the subject of immortality. You keep on insisting on telling me what I believe. If done to you, you'd rightly call that person a jerk. Now do you understand?
thesometimesaint Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I'll have 4 bananas, 3 rutabagas and 6 swedes. Please deliver. I'm a capitalist not God. Send me the money.
MormonFreeThinker Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I will be happy if someone tells me what is that, a human or a chimp?
Gray Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I imagine God to be that lump of Play Doh to be molded into whatever form I want with whatever powers I ascribe to him. Now that was easy. I am free!!!! Welcome to the problem of coming up with models to describe God
Rob Osborn Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I will be happy if someone tells me what is that, a human or a chimp? Its neither. Its a "replica skull" of the piltdown man hoax.
Rob Osborn Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Science does NOT deal with any God. It doesn't say he/she/it exists, and it doesn't that he/she/it doesn't exist. He/she/it is irrelevant to science. Science works whatever the religion, or lack there of, of the person using it. Pi is not equal to exactly three regardless of what some religionist claims. Use the Dictionary. ag·nos·tic [ag-nos-tik] a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic: Socrates was an agnostic on the subject of immortality. You keep on insisting on telling me what I believe. If done to you, you'd rightly call that person a jerk. Now do you understand? You are not sticking to an "agnostic" standard. You keep falling upon the crutches of atheism. If it was truly agnostic as you say then there should be no problem with answering if there is an intelligent cause or not in why life exists. But no, you keep insisting that science cant do that because that "intelligence" may be "God" and science cant have Him in the picture. Thats atheism man.
thesometimesaint Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 You are not sticking to an "agnostic" standard. You keep falling upon the crutches of atheism. If it was truly agnostic as you say then there should be no problem with answering if there is an intelligent cause or not in why life exists. But no, you keep insisting that science cant do that because that "intelligence" may be "God" and science cant have Him in the picture. Thats atheism man. What is it about you that you refuse to use a dictionary? Are you so steeped in your own bigoted nonsense that you refuse to? I am no Atheist. Never have been. Whether there is an intelligent cause or not is not a concern of science, but of religion. Did Zeus cause life to appear? How about Lord Brahma? Here is a list of most of the creator Gods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_deity Take your pick as to which God is to be used in science. Yah Yah I know to you I'm an Atheist because I can't posit your God onto science. You even tell the science teachers at BYU they are Atheists by your own peculiar definitions of words.
MormonFreeThinker Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) Its neither. Its a "replica skull" of the piltdown man hoax. Good job, I though you (or your one of your ID friends) were going to say that it was a deformed human. Here is the real thing, what is that, human or ape? Can you find the modern human Skull? Edited June 13, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker
bcuzbcuz Posted June 13, 2014 Author Posted June 13, 2014 You are not sticking to an "agnostic" standard. You keep falling upon the crutches of atheism. If it was truly agnostic as you say then there should be no problem with answering if there is an intelligent cause or not in why life exists. But no, you keep insisting that science cant do that because that "intelligence" may be "God" and science cant have Him in the picture. Thats atheism man.I've observed, as probably 50 other regular visitors to this site, the banter between you and TSS. Speaking for myself, I find your constant unwillingness to accept statements by TSS as not only annoying but verging on schoolyard bullying. I honestly don't know why TSS puts up with your bs nor why he repeatedly answers your attacks. Only TSS can answer that.Since all of us who post here are relatively anonymous, and we have no better source of information, we must accept people's statements as representing their truth as to what they believe.If I were to say I saw myself as a TBM, you would have to accept that is how I see myself, even if you thought my statements were contradictory to that stance. You could point out contradictions, but once said, the matter is supposedly dropped, definitely not something to be harped upon and brought up on a multitude of topics. You have called TSS an atheist not just here but on 10 or more topics discussed here.It's time to let it go. You've made your point. You don't think TSS is being truthful about his stance on evolution. We all get that. I know, again speaking for myself, that I find TSS's statements not only accurate but believable. He obviously has a deep understanding of scripture and of his beliefs in Mormonism. I also accept that he has found a path that lets him accept evolution without it causing trauma or rejection of his beliefs.It's time for you to stop your bullying. You and TSS do not agree. Let it go. Your comments about atheism are a charade that is tiring and boring. Please stop.
thesometimesaint Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 It's partly my own fault. I want people to understand how science works. I really do believe that "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
Rob Osborn Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I've observed, as probably 50 other regular visitors to this site, the banter between you and TSS. Speaking for myself, I find your constant unwillingness to accept statements by TSS as not only annoying but verging on schoolyard bullying. I honestly don't know why TSS puts up with your bs nor why he repeatedly answers your attacks. Only TSS can answer that. Since all of us who post here are relatively anonymous, and we have no better source of information, we must accept people's statements as representing their truth as to what they believe. If I were to say I saw myself as a TBM, you would have to accept that is how I see myself, even if you thought my statements were contradictory to that stance. You could point out contradictions, but once said, the matter is supposedly dropped, definitely not something to be harped upon and brought up on a multitude of topics. You have called TSS an atheist not just here but on 10 or more topics discussed here. It's time to let it go. You've made your point. You don't think TSS is being truthful about his stance on evolution. We all get that. I know, again speaking for myself, that I find TSS's statements not only accurate but believable. He obviously has a deep understanding of scripture and of his beliefs in Mormonism. I also accept that he has found a path that lets him accept evolution without it causing trauma or rejection of his beliefs. It's time for you to stop your bullying. You and TSS do not agree. Let it go. Your comments about atheism are a charade that is tiring and boring. Please stop. Bullying? You obviously are biased then because I see it the other way around. 1
bcuzbcuz Posted June 13, 2014 Author Posted June 13, 2014 Bullying? You obviously are biased then because I see it the other way around.I'm not asking you to agree with me, just that you hear what I'm saying. Thank you.
Zakuska Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) I wonder where this skull fits on the evolutionary scale? Edited June 13, 2014 by Zakuska
Rob Osborn Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I'm not asking you to agree with me, just that you hear what I'm saying. Thank you. I understand, but do realize its not really right to come in here and give your big spill over your distaste for me. Me and TSS have gone back and forth with each other for years. We actually do get along as well as two opposites can.
ERayR Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I've observed, as probably 50 other regular visitors to this site, the banter between you and TSS. Speaking for myself, I find your constant unwillingness to accept statements by TSS as not only annoying but verging on schoolyard bullying. I honestly don't know why TSS puts up with your bs nor why he repeatedly answers your attacks. Only TSS can answer that. I did not notice anywhere in the board rules the requirement that one must agree. If by not agreeing to tss statements is being a school yard bully then continually pushing those statements is also bullying. I sincerely hope tss does not subscribe to your bully nonsense.
ERayR Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I wonder where this skull fits on the evolutionary scale? It has to be alien. Isn't there supposed to be a set of mandibles there on the bottom?
Calm Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 We actually do get along as well as two opposites can.I have seen others who disagree, whoare "opposites" on a position of faith not resorting to attacking the other as an atheist or an idiot (don't remember who said that one) or something similar that the other denies.If you were two 10 year olds I could see the "as well as opposites can" reasonable. I have seen too many adults surpass your behaviour to buy that standard for anyone older.
Calm Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) I did not notice anywhere in the board rules the requirement that one must agree. If by not agreeing to tss statements is being a school yard bully then continually pushing those statements is also bullying. I sincerely hope tss does not subscribe to your bully nonsense.It is telling him that he is an atheist that I find would qualify as bullying..,and that is against board rules but the two of you seemed to have burnt out the mods in your persistence.Oops, thought this was Rob, but still find telling a believer he's an atheist is bullying as it is an attempt to use shame...calling someone an idiot is being a jerk. Edited June 14, 2014 by calmoriah
ERayR Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 It is telling him that he is an atheist that I find would qualify as bullying..,and that is against board rules but the two of you seemed to have burnt out the mods in your persistence. Tss gives as good as he takes. If you will watch closely he has a habit of using derisive remarks that are offensive at times. At least to me. But then who am I to complain Huh.
Rob Osborn Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 It is telling him that he is an atheist that I find would qualify as bullying..,and that is against board rules but the two of you seemed to have burnt out the mods in your persistence. Heres the deal- TSS has said on more than one occasion that I am an idiot. And I do know thats against the rules but I dont care, I like the debate. That aside. Its really hard to believe somebody when they constantly use the very same material from atheists. Think about it- Suppose you were debating somebody over the creation of the earth and life on it and this person was claiming to be christian but then started linking to videos made by atheists that mock christianity. Would you question them?
Rob Osborn Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 What is it about you that you refuse to use a dictionary? Are you so steeped in your own bigoted nonsense that you refuse to? I am no Atheist. Never have been. Whether there is an intelligent cause or not is not a concern of science, but of religion. Did Zeus cause life to appear? How about Lord Brahma? Here is a list of most of the creator Gods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_deity Take your pick as to which God is to be used in science. Yah Yah I know to you I'm an Atheist because I can't posit your God onto science. You even tell the science teachers at BYU they are Atheists by your own peculiar definitions of words. It very much is a concern of science if we are attempting to find the truth. If an intelligent process (regardless of who, what) was indeed the reason for life's origins then science "MUST" acknowledge that fact. We obviously cannot rule out an intelligent cause and we can test and observe the evidence to help us with this question. Darwinian evolutionists obviously feel threatened by the intelligent design movement because it threatens the very platform of their religion.
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