urroner Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 In Exodus 32:4, Aaron makes a golden calf and "they said, These be thy elohim..." What are the "these" the people are telling Aaron are his elohim? BTW, many interpret "elohim" to be "pagan gods," but in this case, Paul Y. Hoskisson, in his article Aaron's Golden Calf says that it "denote the God of Israel." 1
Robert F. Smith Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 You'll probably want to read the entire article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim . You should find all of your questions answered there.Ex 32:4 is referring to plural "gods." In other cases, the same word can mean angels, judges, etc.In the case of both YHWH and Elohim, we are dealing with epithets or titles rather than proper names, and they are roles to be filled depending on circumstances. 1
JeremyOrbe-Smith Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) See also that neat little parallel bit in Exodus 6 and 7: 7 And I [Jehovah] will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God [Elohim] [...] 28 ¶And it came to pass on the day when the Lord spake unto Moses in the land of Egypt, 29 That the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, I am the Lord: speak thou unto Pharaoh king of Egypt all that I say unto thee. 30 And Moses said before the Lord, Behold, I am of uncircumcised lips, and how shall Pharaoh hearken unto me? [Chapter 7] 1 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god [Elohim] to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Edited October 25, 2013 by JeremyOrbe-Smith 2
rameumptom Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 Israel was entering into the Canaanite lands. The Canaanites worshiped Baal, but also the father of the gods, Elohim. Elohim was anciently expressed as a fertile bull. It is possible that Israel, in its rebellion, was rejecting Yahweh and accepting Elohim as their God - acceptable for dwelling in the land of Canaan and also with ties to Israel's Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 1
maklelan Posted October 25, 2013 Posted October 25, 2013 You'll probably want to read the entire article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim . You should find all of your questions answered there.Ex 32:4 is referring to plural "gods." In other cases, the same word can mean angels, judges, etc.In the case of both YHWH and Elohim, we are dealing with epithets or titles rather than proper names, and they are roles to be filled depending on circumstances. I have serious concerns with that Wikipedia article (I've complained about it before on my blog). I don't agree that the Hebrew elohim ever refers to judges, and although an angel was believed to be a member of the elohim category, I don't see any occurrences in the Hebrew Bible that clearly refer specifically to angels. A segment of my thesis discussing the term is available here. 3
Robert F. Smith Posted October 26, 2013 Posted October 26, 2013 I have serious concerns with that Wikipedia article (I've complained about it before on my blog). I don't agree that the Hebrew elohim ever refers to judges, and although an angel was believed to be a member of the elohim category, I don't see any occurrences in the Hebrew Bible that clearly refer specifically to angels. A segment of my thesis discussing the term is available here. Thank you, Daniel. I like your discussion (could you give me the page numbers so I can cite it), and I agree with you about the KJV translation "judges," but you might want to look at the biblical Hebrew place-name Eilat as referring to the "Goddess," namely Ashera, who was commonly worshipped as the consort of YHWH. As you know, the internal matres lectionis were not used in Classical Israel, and just last Wednesday, Bill Dever told us at USU in Logan that 'elat is the feminine for 'elohim. That was at the Lady of the Temple Symposium. Dever's magnum opus on Iron Age Israel is forthcoming. 2
volgadon Posted October 26, 2013 Posted October 26, 2013 I have serious concerns with that Wikipedia article (I've complained about it before on my blog). I don't agree that the Hebrew elohim ever refers to judges, and although an angel was believed to be a member of the elohim category, I don't see any occurrences in the Hebrew Bible that clearly refer specifically to angels. A segment of my thesis discussing the term is available here. I've also found that not all references to judges in Jewish sources are to human judges, either. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 26, 2013 Posted October 26, 2013 I try to stay away from golden idols, so if I ever win an Oscar I'm turning it down for religious reasons.
volgadon Posted October 26, 2013 Posted October 26, 2013 I try to stay away from golden idols, so if I ever win an Oscar I'm turning it down for religious reasons. What about a Goldeneye doll?
maklelan Posted October 26, 2013 Posted October 26, 2013 Thank you, Daniel. I like your discussion (could you give me the page numbers so I can cite it), and I agree with you about the KJV translation "judges," but you might want to look at the biblical Hebrew place-name Eilat as referring to the "Goddess," namely Ashera, who was commonly worshipped as the consort of YHWH. As you know, the internal matres lectionis were not used in Classical Israel, and just last Wednesday, Bill Dever told us at USU in Logan that 'elat is the feminine for 'elohim. That was at the Lady of the Temple Symposium. Dever's magnum opus on Iron Age Israel is forthcoming. I'm in the middle of revising my thesis, so I don't have page numbers right now. 'elat would certainly provide an attractive cognate with the Phoenician 'lt, "goddess," but I'm curious what evidence Dever can marshal in support of that conclusion. Just a single generic word for "goddess" would be an odd choice for a city name anywhere in the ancient Near East.
volgadon Posted October 26, 2013 Posted October 26, 2013 I'm in the middle of revising my thesis, so I don't have page numbers right now. 'elat would certainly provide an attractive cognate with the Phoenician 'lt, "goddess," but I'm curious what evidence Dever can marshal in support of that conclusion. Just a single generic word for "goddess" would be an odd choice for a city name anywhere in the ancient Near East. My brother lives there, but anyway, in 2 Kings Eilat is listed in close proximity to Etzion-Gever. Eilat quite possibly is a shortened form of the city's name, or it could refer to a wild goat like the one depicted on a seal discovered in Etzion-Gever. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted October 27, 2013 Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) My brother lives there, but anyway, in 2 Kings Eilat is listed in close proximity to Etzion-Gever. Eilat quite possibly is a shortened form of the city's name, or it could refer to a wild goat like the one depicted on a seal discovered in Etzion-Gever.Or to איל, אילת “fallow deer,” which may be cognate with ancient Egyptian ʻrt, ʻry, ʻriw "horned animal; ibex, goat, ram, gazelle.” Edited October 27, 2013 by Robert F. Smith 1
mfbukowski Posted October 28, 2013 Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) Kids are a fungible commondity Heck yeah, but only when they are adult-kids. I have a few of those I would trade for grandkids anytime. But clearly God is a social constructivist. That's why he/they called reality into existence by naming everything.Constructivism Jean Piaget and Lev Vygotsky are names associated with constructivism.Constructivism is a theory of knowledge that says that the human being makes information and meaning from an interaction between their experiences and their ideas.Constructivism is divided in two forms: Cognitive Constructivism and Social ConstructivismCognitive Constructivism is connected with the mind.Social Constructivism its emphases is in the social interaction and cooperative learning in constructing both cognitive and emotional images of reality http://linguistics2011.blogspot.com/2011/04/constructivism.html Edited October 28, 2013 by mfbukowski 2
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