Stone holm Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Won't fly. "God" originates everything because "God Is Existence". There cannot be a thing not caused by "God". If there is anything not caused by "God", that would infer less than total control and knowledge. The power and knowledge must be resident with "God" or else some doubt about his complete, perfect power and knowledge will enter into faith. Without complete power and knowledge, "God" does not deserve our complete faith....Yeah some Holocaust survivors got caught up in a similar conundrum and eventually lost faith, they figured God was either not wholly good because He allowed the debacle to happen, or that He was not all powerful because He did not stop it. I need my God to be wholly good, so I can settle for a God which is neither all knowing and not all powerful. As to the latter, He does not have the power to force any man to heaven.
Questing Beast Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) "God" does not step in and manipulate. That much seems to fit the facts of history. Perfect power and knowledge means perfect agency. If "God" does not manipulate, why should we? But we can't help ourselves, because we are less than perfectly knowledgeable or powerful, so we anthropomorphicize "God" and find him wanting. Understandably, some experiences of hell are "overkill tribulation" and produce bitterness and loss of faith. Maybe a mistaken pov of what/who "God Is" is the problem, not what "God" does not do.... Edited July 2, 2013 by Questing Beast
Stone holm Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 "God" does not step in and manipulate. That much seems to fit the facts of history. Perfect power and knowledge means perfect agency. If "God" does not manipulate, why should we? But we can't help ourselves, because we are less than perfectly knowledgeable or powerful, so we anthropomorphicize "God" and find him wanting. Understandably, some experiences of hell are "overkill tribulation" and produce bitterness and loss of faith. Maybe a mistaken pov of what/who "God Is" is the problem, not what "God" does not do....You sound something of a Deist.
Bikeemikey Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Won't fly. "God" originates everything because "God Is Existence". There cannot be a thing not caused by "God". If there is anything not caused by "God", that would infer less than total control and knowledge. The power and knowledge must be resident with "God" or else some doubt about his complete, perfect power and knowledge will enter into faith. Without complete power and knowledge, "God" does not deserve our complete faith....I just think your definition of god needs to be adjusted.
Questing Beast Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I just think your definition of god needs to be adjusted.How so? Unless your use of god (small "g") was deliberate, which would mean that your definition of "God" needs adjusting to bigger, a lot bigger....
Stone holm Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 How so? Unless your use of god (small "g") was deliberate, which would mean that your definition of "God" needs adjusting to bigger, a lot bigger....Which means you don't necessarily believe in a race of gods, but in a god who is a first cause, rather than a God who is out there surrounded by intelligences all working towards eventually getting a spirit body. But then you don't believe in God having a body do you?
Questing Beast Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Sure I do. I just don't believe in "God" having only a body. The "body" we see is manifesting as human to be one like us, and we are like that body, only mortal at the moment....
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