Half Truths About Polygamy... Not Again! Um Sorry.

[ERayR]

I wrote a theisis but it was not mine, LOL. I'll never write one of my own. Life is good now.

I did a Masters thesis and was approached by a thesis committee member to publish it with him so I did. It was published by a prestigious little ethics journal.

[EllenMaksoud]

I did a Masters thesis and was approached by a thesis committee member to publish it with him so I did. It was published by a prestigious little ethics journal.

I was caught in a moral dilemma and upon thinking about the circumstances at the time, would still do the same thing. The nurse in question had been working as an LPN for over 15 years and was extremely successful. As a part of corporate stupidity and union one ups man ship, this nurse was required to get her RN certificate.

In my opinion, the writing skills of this woman were below 3rd grade, but in view of her past performance I felt that writing her thesis for her was acceptable. She had the knowlege but simply could not write coherently to produce the stilted document required by the school. Today, she is still in nursing as an administrator. It's going to be 33 years soon. I think the decision was a good one.

[ERayR]

I was caught in a moral dilemma and upon thinking about the circumstances at the time, would still do the same thing. The nurse in question had been working as an LPN for over 15 years and was extremely successful. As a part of corporate stupidity and union one ups man ship, this nurse was required to get her RN certificate.

In my opinion, the writing skills of this woman were below 3rd grade, but in view of her past performance I felt that writing her thesis for her was acceptable. She had the knowlege but simply could not write coherently to produce the stilted document required by the school. Today, she is still in nursing as an administrator. It's going to be 33 years soon. I think the decision was a good one.

As long as the ideas and approach were hers and all you did was supply the words that conveyed those ideas, However, I am not sure of the requirements for dissertations from other schools. My thesis was my own but my committee read it and offered suggestions for changes and improvements as well as correcting my mechanics.I had members of my committee who were adherents of different accounting theories and so at times had conflicting suggestions. Now when it came to publication the journals editor required some editing. Nothing that changed the concept or content but changes that did make it read easier.

I think the editing process is what keeps me from writing anything else.

[Stargazer]

One of my questions was if a man has to have more than one wife to receive his exaltation, and you said

"No. Some have thought so, but this is not true."

But D&C 132 says:

https://www.lds.org/...132.27?lang=eng

So how do you know you don't need more than one wife to be exalted?

I know there have been living prophets who have said you can't have more than one living wife now, but have any ever said that you didn't need a sum total of more than one to progress on the other side of the veil?

Did any ever say that being sealed to one (living) wife in the Temple is enough?

I don't recall, specifically. But my understanding is that those men who were not called to practice plural marriage were not penalized for not being called to do so. Those who were called to do so, and refused to observe it, would be considered by the Lord to have rejected exaltation and the principle of eternal marraige.

This is not unusual. The Lord requires baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost as a precondition to forgiveness of sins. If a person refuses it, then he or she cannot be saved in the Kingdom of God. Exaltation requires being sealed to at least one companion for eternity, and if the principle of mortal plural marriage is in effect then a couple is required to observe it if they are called to do so.

But how could the Lord require that the Saints practice plural marriage in life if He has specifically enjoined its practice? It's clear that exaltation does not require plural marriage, just that a couple be willing to live it if asked.

Otherwise, God would be a respecter of persons.

[EllenMaksoud]

As long as the ideas and approach were hers and all you did was supply the words that conveyed those ideas, However, I am not sure of the requirements for dissertations from other schools. My thesis was my own but my committee read it and offered suggestions for changes and improvements as well as correcting my mechanics.I had members of my committee who were adherents of different accounting theories and so at times had conflicting suggestions. Now when it came to publication the journals editor required some editing. Nothing that changed the concept or content but changes that did make it read easier.

I think the editing process is what keeps me from writing anything else.

I am getting ready, considering actually, the idea of taking all the fiction I have written and self publishing it as an anthology, perhaps titled something like "Troubled Fiction", or perhaps "Demented Tales" through Amazon or Lulu. The very idea of allowing a depraved editor to tear away at my babies is repulsive to me. LOL It will have to happen, I suppose.

I wonder if my Bishop would give me special dispensation to consume some hot toddies as this is going on? No, I am not holding my breath thinking he will. LOL

[Yirgacheffe]

As long as the ideas and approach were hers and all you did was supply the words that conveyed those ideas, However, I am not sure of the requirements for dissertations from other schools. My thesis was my own but my committee read it and offered suggestions for changes and improvements as well as correcting my mechanics.I had members of my committee who were adherents of different accounting theories and so at times had conflicting suggestions. Now when it came to publication the journals editor required some editing. Nothing that changed the concept or content but changes that did make it read easier.

I think the editing process is what keeps me from writing anything else.

I've never heard of a school that allows a person to have someone else write their thesis for them. If you are still in contact with anyone from the prestigious little ethics journal maybe you could start an interesting conversation with them.

[Yirgacheffe]

I am getting ready, considering actually, the idea of taking all the fiction I have written and self publishing it as an anthology, perhaps titled something like "Troubled Fiction", or perhaps "Demented Tales" through Amazon or Lulu. The very idea of allowing a depraved editor to tear away at my babies is repulsive to me. LOL It will have to happen, I suppose.

I wonder if my Bishop would give me special dispensation to consume some hot toddies as this is going on? No, I am not holding my breath thinking he will. LOL

A depraved editor, really, why the ugly thought about members of this profession?

[EllenMaksoud]

A depraved editor, really, why the ugly thought about members of this profession?

Oh Oh, I stepped in it now. Is it too late for SORRY?

I had one editor who did evil things to a couple of my stories. I am not a very astute computer user, I just like to write. So when I emailed a story written in MS Word to her, she would use a different version and then also used editing tools built into word. When I got the story back, not only had she "fixed" all the sentences that I used to make a character "feel" foreign, she would change sentences and make them feel stilted and soulless to me. Further, the editing notes were somehow locked into the document in such a way that I could not get rid of them.

This happened twice to me, and I have since done my own proofing and editing. This was not a good solution, but it is all I had available.

[ERayR]

I've never heard of a school that allows a person to have someone else write their thesis for them. If you are still in contact with anyone from the prestigious little ethics journal maybe you could start an interesting conversation with them.

As I stated my thesis was my own done under the surveillance of a duly appointed thesis committee that did make suggestions and gave some direction.

As far as writing it for them it would depend on how extensive it was. When I went to school there were those that made money typing dissertations. This service included editing and suggestions. I don't know if Ellen went beyond that or not and I am not going to ask her at this late date. Where do you consider typing and editing services to end and the work to become the editors and not the students. I know from my experience that when you publish and editor can and often does cut pretty deeply into your work. So does it become the editors work published under your name or is it still your work?

I am interested and waiting for your thoughts.

[ERayR]

A depraved editor, really, why the ugly thought about members of this profession?

When somebody begins to hack away at your creation it some times seem they are depraved.

[ERayR]

Oh Oh, I stepped in it now. Is it too late for SORRY?

I had one editor who did evil things to a couple of my stories. I am not a very astute computer user, I just like to write. So when I emailed a story written in MS Word to her, she would use a different version and then also used editing tools built into word. When I got the story back, not only had she "fixed" all the sentences that I used to make a character "feel" foreign, she would change sentences and make them feel stilted and soulless to me. Further, the editing notes were somehow locked into the document in such a way that I could not get rid of them.

This happened twice to me, and I have since done my own proofing and editing. This was not a good solution, but it is all I had available.

Truly depraved.

[Stargazer]

Oh Oh, I stepped in it now. Is it too late for SORRY?

I had one editor who did evil things to a couple of my stories. I am not a very astute computer user, I just like to write. So when I emailed a story written in MS Word to her, she would use a different version and then also used editing tools built into word. When I got the story back, not only had she "fixed" all the sentences that I used to make a character "feel" foreign, she would change sentences and make them feel stilted and soulless to me. Further, the editing notes were somehow locked into the document in such a way that I could not get rid of them.

This happened twice to me, and I have since done my own proofing and editing. This was not a good solution, but it is all I had available.

It sounds like your editor was a non-fiction editor.

[EllenMaksoud]

Truly depraved.

Quite !

[EllenMaksoud]

It sounds like your editor was a non-fiction editor.

And old enough to be my Mother.

[Yirgacheffe]

As I stated my thesis was my own done under the surveillance of a duly appointed thesis committee that did make suggestions and gave some direction.

As far as writing it for them it would depend on how extensive it was. When I went to school there were those that made money typing dissertations. This service included editing and suggestions. I don't know if Ellen went beyond that or not and I am not going to ask her at this late date. Where do you consider typing and editing services to end and the work to become the editors and not the students. I know from my experience that when you publish and editor can and often does cut pretty deeply into your work. So does it become the editors work published under your name or is it still your work?

I am interested and waiting for your thoughts.

Editing where spelling, punctuation and typos are involved, suggestions where there could be more clarity, information, or keeping on the subject would be okay. When I type my kids work I make suggestions but don't edit, they have to go back and do that, it's what they're supposed to be learning in grade school. But Ellen didn't say she typed and edited she said " writing her thesis for her was acceptable" like I said I've never heard of a school where that would be acceptable. Why Ellen did what she did and an excellent nurse who has trouble with written communications are both subjects that can bring up interesting conversations on ethics, education, and the different types of "intelligence" people can possess.

[ERayR]

Editing where spelling, punctuation and typos are involved, suggestions where there could be more clarity, information, or keeping on the subject would be okay. When I type my kids work I make suggestions but don't edit, they have to go back and do that, it's what they're supposed to be learning in grade school. But Ellen didn't say she typed and edited she said " writing her thesis for her was acceptable" like I said I've never heard of a school where that would be acceptable. Why Ellen did what she did and an excellent nurse who has trouble with written communications are both subjects that can bring up interesting conversations on ethics, education, and the different types of "intelligence" people can possess.

Its funny how different people get different connotations from the same words. When Ellen said she wrote the thesis because the nurses writing skill were at a third grade level, I envisiond Ellen sitting down with her friend and doing the typing and suggesting words for greater clarity. My problem is wondering how this nurse made it in administrative positions in her profession with such poor writing skills. I was envisioning aanything like Ellen writing the completed paper without input and close collaboration with the nurse friend. I was thinking along rhe lines of Ellen sitting with her and suggesting wording to portray the nurses ideas and concepts.

[Yirgacheffe]

Its funny how different people get different connotations from the same words. When Ellen said she wrote the thesis because the nurses writing skill were at a third grade level, I envisiond Ellen sitting down with her friend and doing the typing and suggesting words for greater clarity. My problem is wondering how this nurse made it in administrative positions in her profession with such poor writing skills. I was envisioning aanything like Ellen writing the completed paper without input and close collaboration with the nurse friend. I was thinking along rhe lines of Ellen sitting with her and suggesting wording to portray the nurses ideas and concepts.

What you describe would IMO be more accurately expressed by "helping her with her thesis" rather than "writing her thesis for her". I've been shocked by parents I've known who joked about the grades they received on the reports they wrote for their children. Like you though I wonder how the nurse managed an administrative position with such poor skills.

[ERayR]

What you describe would IMO be more accurately expressed by "helping her with her thesis" rather than "writing her thesis for her". I've been shocked by parents I've known who joked about the grades they received on the reports they wrote for their children. Like you though I wonder how the nurse managed an administrative position with such poor skills.

It doesn't matter after 33 years which scenario is most accurate and it doesn't affect me in the least so I am not going to ask Ellen as it is really no concern of mine. It has been an illustration of how we process information in our own individual way.

[Yirgacheffe]

It doesn't matter after 33 years which scenario is most accurate and it doesn't affect me in the least so I am not going to ask Ellen as it is really no concern of mine. It has been an illustration of how we process information in our own individual way.

Ellen's nurse friend is also an illustration of how we process and transmit information in our own individual way

[CASteinman]

So, I stumbled into this video from "Time", and would like to know if there is any fact to it at all? I especially thought the bit about the Attorney General not prosecuting was interesting. To be clear, I have no issue with it at all as long as everyone is happy and no one is abused. Though 25 children, really? That's like 8 and 1/3 children each! Perhaps not so bad? So, don't wish to start any sort of ruction, can this be true?

http://www.time.com/...2120441,00.html

3 Things can make Polygamy go from Holy to not so good to evil.

1. Failure to have approval from God.

2. Secrecy.

3. Inability of the Father to Support Wives and Children honestly.

I think it was unfortunate the in the restored Gospel, polygamy had to be started in secret -- because this makes things not work so well. Its probably the #1 reason for problems in our history. But I don't think it could have been done any other way.

I also think it is a divine principle calculated to exalt the human race and uplift both men and women but that -- as with regular marriage -- we are challenged by it and don't make it what it could be. Under current US Laws, it is (in my view) impossible to have plural marriage operate correctly.

Edited April 29, 2013 by CASteinman