Help - Past Church Authorities And Their Words

[teddyaware]

True, and the Ballard quote smacks a little of the reasoning of Brigham Young and Bruce R McConkie which was spun regarding the Africans, and is part and parcel with the type of reasoning which led Germany into a very dark place in the last century.

Except that the true seed of Abraham are not necessarily those who are born into that lineage, but those who qualify for the priesthood of Abraham! (Abraham 2:10–11)

A review of Biblical history will show that, by and large, the House of Israel remained remained a peculiar and singular race of people, commanded of God not to intermarry with those who were not of the House of Israel. Except for the early patriarchs, all her prophets were literal descendants of Jacob. If some born of that lineage did not live up to obtaining the foreordained blessings they were meant to receive on earth, that does not negate the fact that God established the literal lineage of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob to be a seperate and peculiar people, and the bearers of the Lord's oracles.

This exclusive state of affairs continued until it was revealed to Peter, by the revelation, that the gospel was finally going to be extended to the gentiles as well. Even in our day, the Lord continues to disseminate the blessings of the gospel only through the lineage of Abraham. In fact, the blessing of the world with the blessings of the gospel in our day through the lineage of Abraham is so ironclad and immovable that one who is not a literal descenant of Abraham must be adopted into that lineage in order to receive any gospel blessings at all.

Attempting in any way to obscure the fact that for a significant perior of time the Lord commanded the House of Israel to remain a seperate, distinct and peculiar people, commanded to marry and have children only with others of the House of Israel, is to ignore the patently the obvious. In order for the blessing to be fulfilled that he would be made a great nation and bear the ministry of the gospel and Priesthood to all nations, Abraham had to have a literal son, Isaac, miraculously born to aged Sarah.

Like it or not, there is a very real and literal racial component to the story of the descendents of Abraham who became the house of Israel, and no amount of wishful thinking, political correctness, or Stone holm's unfounded accusations against Elders McConkie and Ballard can change the facts.

Edited March 29, 2013 by teddyaware

[thesometimesaint]

ERaYR, do you believe people are superior or chosen based solely on their lineage?

ERayR can speak for himself. But yes I believe people are superior or chosen based soley on their lineage. It extends to ALL people. We are the children of God.

[Stone holm]

The argument that certain races are superior to other races, has always been used as the basis for exterminating other races. The Old Testament is filled with genocides, some authorized by God others by man. Rhetoric or arguments to which I alluded were innocently made by Church Authorities, unfortunately it is logic and arguments like this that get twisted up in the minds of twisted people and come out the other end like Aryan Nation types. I am sorry, sometimes the truth, if that be the truth behind why the Israelites were the "chosen people", is not very helpful in these modern days. I have heard, however, from a Rabbi a different spin on the "Chosen People", namely that the Jews were chosen to suffer for all humankind. In other words, some Jews believe that what we believe Christ did for all mankind, they think that their entire race is doing for all mankind. That is not the same type of an argument and is something much more appealing as a racial argument than the other. I don't know why Israel had the relationship it had with God when it had that relationship (and I understand the argument that the seed of Israel is so widespread now that we are all probably Israelites, or that it really means people who have behaved such as to have come under the Abrahamic Covenant), but I do think it may well have had something to do with Earth Creating that we don't understand right now, and is not terribly relevant to todays world.

[omni]

You don't believe it is possible that God might call a certain group to perform a certain necessary task for Him?

Sure, just as he calls missionaries to perform a certain task, but that's totally different than denying the vast majority of the world's population the blessings of the gospel or the priesthood based solely on who you were born to. If this were to happen today there would be an uproar, but we make justifications for it happening in the past. We are taught that God is an unchanging God.

[thesometimesaint]

Sure, just as he calls missionaries to perform a certain task, but that's totally different than denying the vast majority of the world's population the blessings of the gospel or the priesthood based solely on who you were born to. If this were to happen today there would be an uproar, but we make justifications for it happening in the past. We are taught that God is an unchanging God.

No one will be DENIED any blessing of the Gospel. We are free to accept or reject any or all of them, but God will not deny them to us.

God is unchanging in his love for us. What he demands of me may well be different than what he demands from you. IE; I have no desire to have Abraham's challenge.

[Stone holm]

Sure, just as he calls missionaries to perform a certain task, but that's totally different than denying the vast majority of the world's population the blessings of the gospel or the priesthood based solely on who you were born to. If this were to happen today there would be an uproar, but we make justifications for it happening in the past. We are taught that God is an unchanging God.

God is an unchanging God, but He works many times within cultures, and sometimes within the constraints placed upon Him by proper development of us as the god in embryo human race. Some Gospel Truths are either obscured by the cultural lens through which we see the world, and sometimes because they are only partially revealed give us a distorted view of the world.

[teddyaware]

The argument that certain races are superior to other races, has always been used as the basis for exterminating other races. The Old Testament is filled with genocides, some authorized by God others by man. Rhetoric or arguments to which I alluded were innocently made by Church Authorities, unfortunately it is logic and arguments like this that get twisted up in the minds of twisted people and come out the other end like Aryan Nation types. I am sorry, sometimes the truth, if that be the truth behind why the Israelites were the "chosen people", is not very helpful in these modern days. I have heard, however, from a Rabbi a different spin on the "Chosen People", namely that the Jews were chosen to suffer for all humankind. In other words, some Jews believe that what we believe Christ did for all mankind, they think that their entire race is doing for all mankind. That is not the same type of an argument and is something much more appealing as a racial argument than the other. I don't know why Israel had the relationship it had with God when it had that relationship (and I understand the argument that the seed of Israel is so widespread now that we are all probably Israelites, or that it really means people who have behaved such as to have come under the Abrahamic Covenant), but I do think it may well have had something to do with Earth Creating that we don't understand right now, and is not terribly relevant to todays world.

Remember, the doctrine of foreordination, or the election of especially faithful preexistent spirits, is the primary rationale and justification for the gospel blessings that are bequethed to the seed of Abraham on earth. To me. it's not at all difficult to imagine that the varying degrees of faith, talents, courage, knowledge, wisdom and charity attained to and demonstrated by the spirit children of God in the pre-earth life follow them here into mortality. Isn't that what the three degrees of glory and perdition are all about? There are varying degrees of belief and faithfulness demonstrated by the children of men in this life, and each will receive a reward of glory in the one of the many mansions above in direct proportion to his willingness to submit to the will of God in Christlike service to his fellow man.

Will there be complainers in the lower kingdomes who will say it's unfair and that they are sequestered away from their bretheren in the higher kingdoms? Will there be those there who will murmur that it's not right that they cannot visit with those in the higher kingdome unless those in said higher kingdoms deign to descend unto them? Will there be those of an egalitarian mindset there who will complain -- as did Lucifer and his followers -- that everything and everyone should be caused to turn out equal so as to not hurt anyone's fellings? I'm choosing my expressions carefully in order to make what I believe is a valid point -- gradations of reward are a fact of life, whether on earth or in heaven; we reap what we sow.

So, does this particular understanding of how things work in God's cosmos give someone a valid excuse to gloat like the ungodly and think they are superior to others? No! Those who attain to the highest degree of glory in the Celestial Kindom are the most humble, broken-hearted and contrite of all God's children, that's why they are exalted. They realise that if it weren't for the mercy and grace of Christ our "spirits must have become like unto him (Satan), and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself." And those who attain to the highest station in heaven also know and have internalized better than all others that "all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them."

Twisted egomaniacs like Hitler, who pervert true principles to gain power and advantage of others, are light years away from a true understanding of how the true doctrine of election works -- theirs is Satan's perversion of a doctrine meant to humble men to the very dust.

It is because they are devoid of all boasting and pride that these obtain the pinnacle of salvation. They are exalted on high because they took to heart the Saviour's admonition that " "He who would be greatest among you shall be the servant of all." Christ is the King of Glory because he is the most humble and compassionate of all the chidren of God. Like him, those who live with him in eternal glory would never think to boast of their "greatness." Rather, they "fall down before him that (sits) on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord..."

Thread closed in fulfillment of Godwin's Law.