Tacenda Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Apparently Brian Hales approached John Dehlin for this interview with the intention of clearing up things from the controversial podcast interview John had with Grant Palmer back in May 2012, I believe. Listening to it right now....http://mormonstories.org/brian-hales-refutation-of-grant-palmers-treatment-of-sexual-allegations-against-joseph-smith/ 1
rockpond Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I'm looking forward to listening to this one. There seem to be a number of people here who feel that Grant Palmer is not a good historian, maybe this podcast will give me some insight as to why they feel that way.
Tacenda Posted February 22, 2013 Author Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) I'm looking forward to listening to this one. There seem to be a number of people here who feel that Grant Palmer is not a good historian, maybe this podcast will give me some insight as to why they feel that way.It discussed alot of Fanny Alger stuff and might answer questions on the "Poor Fanny" thread. I guess Brian has a book coming out and he and Don Bradley will be at a book signing. My mind went blank on the date but MS has all of that info posted with the podcast. Edited February 22, 2013 by Tacenda
Brian 2.0 Posted February 22, 2013 Posted February 22, 2013 Brian also did a 2 hour interview on the A Thoughtful Faith podcast. It was great. Haven't listened to the Dehlin one yet.http://athoughtfulfaith.org/2013/02/18/027-028-brian-c-hales-on-joseph-smiths-polygamy/
Tacenda Posted February 22, 2013 Author Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Brian also did a 2 hour interview on the A Thoughtful Faith podcast. It was great. Haven't listened to the Dehlin one yet.http://athoughtfulfa...miths-polygamy/Thankyou for the link, here's part 2 of the MS podcast!http://mormonstories.org/brian-hales-12-myths-regarding-joseph-smiths-polygamy/ Edited February 22, 2013 by Tacenda
noel00 Posted February 22, 2013 Posted February 22, 2013 Dan Vogel commented on facebook:"While I find Brian Hale’s works well-researched, I don’t find them well-reasoned. He likes to accuse Palmer of overstating his case, but he constantly quibbles, minimizes, and understates the evidence. Levi Lewis’s statement about Martin Harris’s statement about Joseph Smith’s attempt to seduce Eliza Winters no doubt relates what Harris at least believed. Both Harris and Winters had occasion to deny Lewis’s well-known account, but never did. Hales didn’t mention that Winters’ lost her 1833 suit against Harris. Lewis’ statement was first published in the Susquehanna Register in May 1834, not in Howe’s book. Hales misinterprets Lewis’ reference to Joseph Smith not showing the plates, which has nothing to do with the subsequent testimonies of the witnesses but rather with the testimony of the Harmony witnesses that Smith had promised them a view of the plates (see espe...cially the statement of Nathaniel Lewis). Hales should balance the BOM’s making adultery a sin next to murder with JS’s 1842 statement to Nancy Rigdon that whatever God commands to do is right no matter what it is, even if it seems abominable to us. Hales speculates that in his 1880 interview with Winters, Mather asked about Lewis’ statement but didn’t publish her denial. Given the fact that she lost her suit against Harris in 1833, it doesn’t seem likely that she would take him on again, especially in print. More important is Harris’s silence since he had every reason to protect JS’s reputation. Despite Hales’ eagerness, this single sentence is not so easily dismissed. 1
rockpond Posted February 24, 2013 Posted February 24, 2013 Brian also did a 2 hour interview on the A Thoughtful Faith podcast. It was great. Haven't listened to the Dehlin one yet.http://athoughtfulfa...miths-polygamy/I've started listening to the "A Thoughtful Faith" podcast interview with Hales (I'll get to the MS one next).One thing that bothered me was the false dichotomy Hales claims in the early part of the interview. He said that Joseph Smith's polygamy must fall into one of two possibilities: either God commanded it or it was driven by Joseph's ego.Hales lost a little bit of credibility with me on that one. There are other possibilities. Maybe he'll get to an explanation as to why his dichotomy is correct but so far (half-way through the interview) he has not.For now, I'll continue listening. I think Hales has accumulated extensive knowledge on the subject and it's a fascinating podcast.I also think those kind of dichotomies are dangerous and can lead people out of the church when they fail in their efforts to "prove" the affirmative side of the construct.
Tacenda Posted February 24, 2013 Author Posted February 24, 2013 I've started listening to the "A Thoughtful Faith" podcast interview with Hales (I'll get to the MS one next).One thing that bothered me was the false dichotomy Hales claims in the early part of the interview. He said that Joseph Smith's polygamy must fall into one of two possibilities: either God commanded it or it was driven by Joseph's ego.Hales lost a little bit of credibility with me on that one. There are other possibilities. Maybe he'll get to an explanation as to why his dichotomy is correct but so far (half-way through the interview) he has not.For now, I'll continue listening. I think Hales has accumulated extensive knowledge on the subject and it's a fascinating podcast.I also think those kind of dichotomies are dangerous and can lead people out of the church when they fail in their efforts to "prove" the affirmative side of the construct.I think I liked the "A Thoughtful Faith" podcast better than the MS one. The gal that interviewed him asked some good questions.
rockpond Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 I think I liked the "A Thoughtful Faith" podcast better than the MS one. The gal that interviewed him asked some good questions.I agree, the ATF podcast was more compelling for me, but it was also more of a discussion about Brother Hales' work whereas the MS podcast was more of Hales countering the claims of Grant Palmer. I think Hales effectively poked some holes in Palmer's work but Hales also makes some assumptions that show his personal bias. I haven't listened to part 2 of the MS podcast with Hales but I am looking forward to it because Hales is obviously remarkably well educated on the subject.
WmLaw Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 Hales' research and knowledge on the subject was impressive. In the podcast setting he does present some biased opinions that aren't necessarily backed by all the evidence. I'll be interested to read his book and see how his work is presented.
Tacenda Posted March 6, 2013 Author Posted March 6, 2013 Hales' research and knowledge on the subject was impressive. In the podcast setting he does present some biased opinions that aren't necessarily backed by all the evidence. I'll be interested to read his book and see how his work is presented.If anyone cares to go he'll be at another book signing. I c/p from a FB page here:Brian Hales will be discussing his new 3-volume set, "Joseph's Smith's Polygamy" at Pioneer Book (858 S State St, Orem) on March 9th at 7:00 pm. Composed of over 1,500 pages and for the first time drawing on every known account in the field, Joseph’s Smith’s Polygamy meticulously reconstructs both the history and the theological underpinnings of the often misunderstood practice. Volumes 1 and 2 comprise the history portion of the trilogy and take a fresh look at the historical development of Mormon poly...gamy during the life of Joseph Smith. Addressing difficult conundrums such as the Fannie Alger relationship, polyandry, accounts of the “angel with a drawn sword,” and other fascinating details, Hales makes responsible use of personal accounts and collected documents -- especially the newly available Andrew Jenson Papers. This complex and nuanced history is enhanced by Hales' thorough use of the private writings of Nauvoo participants and other polygamy "insiders," including multiple accounts that have never been previously published. Joseph Smith’s Polygamy represents the most comprehensive history of early Mormon polygamy to date. Volume 3 engages the theology of plural marriage and explores a crucial aspect of early Mormon polygamy -- one that has been ignored in virtually all published studies of the practice. In this volume Hales builds on his historical research and places polygamy within the context of Joseph Smith’s expanding theological teachings and worldview. Polygamy is interpreted amidst Smith's broader teachings on the related topics of obedience to God’s will, marriage and family relations, the mechanics of eternal progression, salvation, and exaltation. Volume 3 acts as a capstone to the series, explaining not only what happened, but why.
Pahoran Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 I'm looking forward to listening to this one. There seem to be a number of people here who feel that Grant Palmer is not a good historian, maybe this podcast will give me some insight as to why they feel that way.Rather than listening to someone else talk, you could try reading about it, here.Regards,Pahoran
Tacenda Posted March 15, 2013 Author Posted March 15, 2013 There are two more MS podcasts (plus slides) with Brian Hales that are part 3 & 4, if anyone wants to take a listen. http://mormonstories.org/404-404-brian-hales-pt-3-the-naturalistic-vs-faithful-view-of-joseph-smths-polygamy/http://mormonstories.org/405-brian-hales-pt-4-reconciling-belief-with-polygamy/I'm listening right now and might comment after.
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