Jude2 Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Ya know all those advertisements trying to get you to buy gold and silver, why it even feels good to hold. I was preparing my Primary lesson and ran across this passage. “And it came to pass that when three hundred years had passed away, both the people of Nephi and the Lamanites had become exceedingly wicked one like unto another…And gold and silver did they lay up in store in abundance…” 4Nephi 1:45-46Makes you stop and think. 1
Cobalt-70 Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 It is interesting that the rest of that sentence is, "And gold and silver did they lay up on store in abundance, and did traffic in all manner of traffic." When we use the word "traffic," we usually are referring to very shady economic activities like drugs, prostitution, and counterfeit goods, etc. It is kind of strange that hording gold and silver is mentioned in the same sentence as "trafficking."There's another passage in the Book of Mormon that might be relevant to gold-hoarders, which is Helaman 13:31: "And behold, the time cometh that he curseth your riches, that they become slippery, that ye cannot hold them; and in the days of your poverty ye cannot retain them."
Jude2 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 It is interesting that the rest of that sentence is, "And gold and silver did they lay up on store in abundance, and did traffic in all manner of traffic." When we use the word "traffic," we usually are referring to very shady economic activities like drugs, prostitution, and counterfeit goods, etc. It is kind of strange that hording gold and silver is mentioned in the same sentence as "trafficking."There's another passage in the Book of Mormon that might be relevant to gold-hoarders, which is Helaman 13:31: "And behold, the time cometh that he curseth your riches, that they become slippery, that ye cannot hold them; and in the days of your poverty ye cannot retain them."Stock markets crash?
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Matthew 6 (and oh how these verses made an impact on St. Francis!):25 Therefore I say to you, be not solicitous for your life, what you shall eat, nor for your body, what you shall put on. Is not the life more than the meat: and the body more than the raiment? 26 Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by taking thought, can add to his stature by one cubit? 28 And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. 29 But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. 30 And if the grass of the field, which is to day, and to morrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith? 31 Be not solicitous therefore, saying, What shall we eat: or what shall we drink, or wherewith shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the heathens seek. For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things. 33 Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.34 Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof. 1
ERayR Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 It is interesting that the rest of that sentence is, "And gold and silver did they lay up on store in abundance, and did traffic in all manner of traffic." When we use the word "traffic," we usually are referring to very shady economic activities like drugs, prostitution, and counterfeit goods, etc. It is kind of strange that hording gold and silver is mentioned in the same sentence as "trafficking."There's another passage in the Book of Mormon that might be relevant to gold-hoarders, which is Helaman 13:31: "And behold, the time cometh that he curseth your riches, that they become slippery, that ye cannot hold them; and in the days of your poverty ye cannot retain them."Trafficking can refer to either legal or illegal trade. I see nothing in those verses to indicate that it was either. It seems to me a bit presumptuous to apply only the negative connotation. If one is able it seems the prudent thing to do is to at least include some precious metals in their storage program. 2
ERayR Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Matthew 6 (and oh how these verses made an impact on St. Francis!):25 Therefore I say to you, be not solicitous for your life, what you shall eat, nor for your body, what you shall put on. Is not the life more than the meat: and the body more than the raiment? 26 Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by taking thought, can add to his stature by one cubit? 28 And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. 29 But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. 30 And if the grass of the field, which is to day, and to morrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith? 31 Be not solicitous therefore, saying, What shall we eat: or what shall we drink, or wherewith shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the heathens seek. For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things. 33 Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.34 Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof.There is a children's story about the ant and the grasshopper which seems to have some relevance at this point. A careful reading of the scriptures you have quoted indicates it was instruction to the apostles. They were to spend their time in service to the church and not in accumulating possessions. 2
DavidB Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I wonder if the laying up in store, is analogous to those corporations which deliberately manipulate markets by way of controlling the supplies. I.e. precious metals, gems, oil.
ERayR Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I wonder if the laying up in store, is analogous to those corporations which deliberately manipulate markets by way of controlling the supplies. I.e. precious metals, gems, oil.Again I wonder why you reach for a negative connotation. "Laying up in store" can be either negative or positive and I am fairly certain there was some of both going on. To me the problem was not the "laying up" but the state of mind behind the laying up. The fixation on wealth for wealth's sake.
thesometimesaint Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Buy gold only after every available inch in your home is stuffed with food storage. 1
MiserereNobis Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 There is a children's story about the ant and the grasshopper which seems to have some relevance at this point.Perhaps, but the words of Our Savior take precedence over a children's story, wouldn't you say?A careful reading of the scriptures you have quoted indicates it was instruction to the apostles. They were to spend their time in service to the church and not in accumulating possessions.You don't think it has any application to us? That it's just in the scriptures as a "report" of what Our Lord said to the apostles and as historical interest only?There are those who took Jesus at His word on this passage, such as St. Francis, and transformed themselves and the world around them.
thesometimesaint Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I believe the Lord expects us to use whatever talents, abilities, and resources we have to provide for our own needs, to help others, and further His Kingdom. 1
ERayR Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Perhaps, but the words of Our Savior take precedence over a children's story, wouldn't you say?You don't think it has any application to us? That it's just in the scriptures as a "report" of what Our Lord said to the apostles and as historical interest only?There are those who took Jesus at His word on this passage, such as St. Francis, and transformed themselves and the world around them.No it is in the scriptures as instruction to those called to leadership. God expects us to use what he has provided for us and prepare for future events. The events unfolding in the US Northeast is a prime example. Those who have prepared are now in a position to assist those who were less prepared. There were and are those who with very little have mobilized those around them to accomplish great things. However, to do this they obviously had to find some who had prepared and accumulated resources. 1
Jude2 Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 Buy gold only after every available inch in your home is stuffed with food storage. We live by the motto; If ya can't eat it ya don't need it!
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Ya know all those advertisements trying to get you to buy gold and silver, why it even feels good to hold.I was preparing my Primary lesson and ran across this passage. “And it came to pass that when three hundred years had passed away, both the people of Nephi and the Lamanites had become exceedingly wicked one like unto another…And gold and silver did they lay up in store in abundance…” 4Nephi 1:45-46Makes you stop and think.It does? Do these verses say that storing up gold and silver is the reason they were wicked? 1
thesometimesaint Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I would say that if you can't eat for food, wear it for clothing, or burn it for fuel, think long and hard about buying it.
Jude2 Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 It does? Do these verses say that storing up gold and silver is the reason they were wicked?No, they were wicked and put their trust in gold instead of God. 1
ERayR Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I would say that if you can't eat for food, wear it for clothing, or burn it for fuel, think long and hard about buying it.I would add "or trade it for the above".
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 No, they were wicked and put their trust in gold instead of God.I concur.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I would say that if you can't eat for food, wear it for clothing, or burn it for fuel, think long and hard about buying it.What are we talking about here? In general? I disagree. In times of struggle or need? Then I agree. 1
Cobalt-70 Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Stock markets crash?I'd be much more worried about a gold market crash at this point.
thesometimesaint Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 What are we talking about here? In general? I disagree. In times of struggle or need? Then I agree.Gold. We can not eat it, wear it for clothing, or burn it for fuel.In general be very wise about anything you spend your hard earned money on.When in need or struggle be even more so.
Bikeemikey Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 It is interesting that the rest of that sentence is, "And gold and silver did they lay up on store in abundance, and did traffic in all manner of traffic." When we use the word "traffic," we usually are referring to very shady economic activities like drugs, prostitution, and counterfeit goods, etc. It is kind of strange that hording gold and silver is mentioned in the same sentence as "trafficking."There's another passage in the Book of Mormon that might be relevant to gold-hoarders, which is Helaman 13:31: "And behold, the time cometh that he curseth your riches, that they become slippery, that ye cannot hold them; and in the days of your poverty ye cannot retain them."Why not just say having savings is wicked. 1
ERayR Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 Gold. We can not eat it, wear it for clothing, or burn it for fuel.In general be very wise about anything you spend your hard earned money on.When in need or struggle be even more so.It is however good as a barter item. If one has adequate food and clothing stored and has the ability to do so the purchase of a small amount of precious metals would be wise.
Cobalt-70 Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 It is however good as a barter item. If one has adequate food and clothing stored and has the ability to do so the purchase of a small amount of precious metals would be wise.In big natural disasters, first of all who in their right mind is going to give you their clean water in exchange for a nugget of gold. Second, in these disasters, whoever barters with gold? There may be profiteers there who will sell you provisions at hiked-up prices, but they always want cash. When is the last time that anyone has ever bartered with gold? The 19th century? I think that toilet paper would be a much better candidate for currency than gold.
Jude2 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Posted October 31, 2012 I think that toilet paper would be a much better candidate for currency than gold.Oh Amen 1
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