KevinG Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 Enough ranting. Join us for the 'CONDITIONAL DONATION' DAY the week after conference on October 14, 2012Is this crusade your spamming has led up to your own creation or are you just a foot soldier for someone else's movement?If you are the organizer I can give you some hints as to how you are doing it wrong and how you might be more effective. Although you don't strike me as someone who takes advice well.Just let me know. I will be happy to advise.
ERayR Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 Agreed... My sarcasm was intended to show that publication of financials is no insurance that they are accurate or well managed. The argument that publication is insurance against misuse is weak.Usually I can catch the sarcasm but today has been... Well its just been.
KevinG Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 Usually I can catch the sarcasm but today has been... Well its just been.No problem! I should put a warning about taking my comments seriously in my sig line.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) You can't prove it either that the Church DIDN'T funnel funds from charitable donations to a mall.Are you acquainted with a concept called burden of proof? It's means it's up to you to substantiate an accusation, and if you can't or won't, it collapses from its own vacuity. Edited August 22, 2012 by Scott Lloyd 3
ERayR Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 And if you put subject to refund don't be surprised if the bishop pulls you aside and hands your check back to you. 2
KevinG Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 And if you put subject to refund don't be surprised if the bishop pulls you aside and hands your check back to you.Instant refund! You can't say the church is unresponsive. 3
Scott Lloyd Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 Usually I can catch the sarcasm but today has been... Well its just been.I admit the sarcasm went over my head as well, and I was saying in my mind "et tu, KevinG?" 1
KevinG Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 I admit the sarcasm went over my head as well, and I was saying in my mind "et tu, KevinG?"This is a new experience for me... being told I was too subtle.I'm positively reeling.
ERayR Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 This is a new experience for me... being told I was too subtle.I'm positively reeling.Maybe it is age and senility. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 Enough ranting. Join us for the 'CONDITIONAL DONATION' DAY the week after conference on October 14, 2012EVERYONE is invited to participate in a CONDITIONAL DONATION day the week after Conference on October 14, 2012. When everyone pays a donation that day, write in some purpose on the tithing slip, instead of putting it all under "Tithing". Write any purpose other than Tithing. You can write: FOR Book of Mormon PRINTINGFOR TEMPLE BLDGFOR WARD MISSIONARYFOR FAST OFFERINGFOR WARD BLDGFOR STAKE BLDGFOR YM/YW CAMPFOR THE UNEMPLOYED IN THE WARDIs this going to be like those on-line petitions that never get anywhere, the ones that call for the Church to release its financials to public gaze? 1
KevinG Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 Maybe it is age and senility.I was going to write a scathing retort but I couldn't remember what you wrote. Oh well... time for my nap anyway.
ERayR Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 Is this going to be like those on-line petitions that never get anywhere, the ones that call for the Church to release its financials to public gaze?What about the ones to reveal the space aliens in the basement of the SL temple
KevinG Posted August 22, 2012 Posted August 22, 2012 What about the ones to reveal the space aliens in the basement of the SL templeNow you have gone too far. Scott bring me the neurolizer and a clean up crew!!
JCNowandForever Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) That is nifty as long as you don't think it is a substitute for tithing.As long as we're going to make conditional donations can we add the "KevinG early retirement fund?"We could but the Church will not pay for your retirement, or by the time they distribute it you'd be six feet down under No. this is substitute for tithing. The whole purpose is to prevent it from labeling it as Tithing so it doesn't get funneled for multi-purpose use (u know that Mall thing?)Your 10% donation will still be tithe in your heart and the Lord knows that. It's the use of that fund that needed to be re-directed to a more appropriate use other than again, the Mall? I like the "For the UNEMPLOYED OF THE WARD". It's more noble than "Tithing for the Mall". Edited August 23, 2012 by JCNowandForever
JCNowandForever Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) And what would that accomplish. You don't need to do that on a special day you can do it any day you donate. However if it is not designated tithing then it is not tithing. It is for whatever you designate it for. You remind me of a boxing hopful who keeps punching at the punching bag but can't get out of the way so it keeps bouncing back and hitting him in the face and then he wonders why his nose is sore and bloody.Exactly what you're saying. It won't be designated as tithing, because we don't want the multi-use of tithing. Designating it to very specific fund helps the Church to properly use of its funds.Oh and you're right we don't need a special day. But we're starting it on that day and can be done every week, every time after that day when one makes a donation. In fact YOU start next Sunday, if you're so incline to donate. Edited August 23, 2012 by JCNowandForever
JCNowandForever Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 Is this crusade your spamming has led up to your own creation or are you just a foot soldier for someone else's movement?If you are the organizer I can give you some hints as to how you are doing it wrong and how you might be more effective. Although you don't strike me as someone who takes advice well.Just let me know. I will be happy to advise.Advise away...
JCNowandForever Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 Is this going to be like those on-line petitions that never get anywhere, the ones that call for the Church to release its financials to public gaze?I doubt it.. but care to sign up?
volgadon Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 We could but the Church will not pay for your retirement, or by the time they distribute it you'd be six feet down under No. this is substitute for tithing. The whole purpose is to prevent it from labeling it as Tithing so it doesn't get funneled for multi-purpose use (u know that Mall thing?)Your 10% donation will still be tithe in your heart and the Lord knows that. It's the use of that fund that needed to be re-directed to a more appropriate use other than again, the Mall? I like the "For the UNEMPLOYED OF THE WARD". It's more noble than "Tithing for the Mall".The thing is, won't be "tithe in your heart." Your duty in this begins and ends with you giving 10% to the Lord's representative. Afterwards, were he to hide it under the kitchen tiles for 20 years, or doodle mustaches on the pictures, or buy the world's largest pumpkin, or even burn the money, that is his stewardship, his accountability before the Lord, not yours. You don't get to decide the proper use of those funds. Of you it is required but to give. 3
ERayR Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Exactly what you're saying. It won't be designated as tithing, because we don't want the multi-use of tithing. Designating it to very specific fund helps the Church to properly use of its funds.Oh and you're right we don't need a special day. But we're starting it on that day and can be done every week, every time after that day when one makes a donation. In fact YOU start next Sunday, if you're so incline to donate.You do realize that when it comes to tithing questions you can not truthfully answer that you are a tithe payer? Or have you thought that far yet? Question: since you are opposed to the way the church does things have you given any thought to withholding your contributions altogether? Since you are so certain that tithing and fast offerings are being diverted what makes you think all those other funds are not being diverted?Now that ought to keep you wide awake for a night or two.PS. I can tell you with certainty they all get deposited in the same bank account. Edited August 23, 2012 by ERayR 1
Scott Lloyd Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) I doubt it.. but care to sign up?Sign where? Is there a publicly posted petition somewhere? I would be happy to place on it a written expression of my thoughts.Here's the thing: The Savior's church doesn't need your money. But you need the blessings that come from humble, cheerful, willing, no-strings-attached obedience to the law of tithing. Edited August 23, 2012 by Scott Lloyd
JCNowandForever Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Your duty in this begins and ends with you giving 10% to the Lord's representative. Afterwards, were he to hide it under the kitchen tiles for 20 years, or doodle mustaches on the pictures, or buy the world's largest pumpkin, or even burn the money, that is his stewardship, his accountability before the Lord, not yours. You don't get to decide the proper use of those funds.I don't buy that idea, but that's you. We can help the "Lord's representative" re-direct proper use of funds through CONDITIONAL DONATIONS. It's allowed by law. It's encourage by the Church in the tithing slip which lists other uses of funds other than tithing such as FO, Missionary, etc. No I don't want him to hide it under the kitchen tiles or deposit it in his own account or do whatever he wants to do with it.. We designate this to a specific purpose. That helps him in his stewardship and accountability. Edited August 23, 2012 by JCNowandForever
volgadon Posted August 23, 2012 Posted August 23, 2012 Sign where?Don't worry, go ahead and sign, I'll call up Daniel Webster in my next spiritualist seance.
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