zerinus Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 See the explanations offered here.As usual, I am more interested in their “Scriptures” menu than the rest. They have moved the “Scriptures” link from where it was to the top of the screen, which makes it more prominent, and therefore in itself is an improvement; but apart from that I see little else that is. Clicking on the link, instead of taking you to the original unified scripture site (where everything to do with the scriptures was located), it gives you a menu of the individual scripture books, but without the original unified web page anywhere in sight. You can still get to it by doing some detective work, which can be seen here; but if you didn’t already know that it was there, or didn’t know how to be a detective on the Web, you wouldn’t look for it, or wouldn’t be able to find it. I don’t see how that is going to be an improvement.More importantly, it obscures the classic scripture site which in my opinion (and I am sure in the opinion of everybody else who has tried it), is by far and away the better of the two scripture sites for doing searches, or for looking up complex scripture expressions; and there is a danger that that site will eventually be lost altogether. If it is made so obscure that nobody can find it, and therefore use it, it can always be argued that it is not much used, and therefore not necessary to keep it; whereas if it was made prominent enough to be noticed, more people would recognize the value of it, and therefore use it. Most people use the scriptures sites on the Internet to do complex searches or look up references; and for both of those purposes the classic scripture site is superior to the new. I hope somebody is listening, and will do something about it.
Calm Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Rather than just posting here where is it unlikely someone is listening, use the feedback form.
zerinus Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 Rather than just posting here where is it unlikely someone is listening, use the feedback form.I have tried that before, and nobody takes any notice.
zerinus Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 My preferred option would be for them to put a link to the classic scripture site at the top of the page alongside the new, so that both of them are given equal prominence. That way they can determine which one of them is more popular with the users. At the moment, the way the link to the old scripture site is obscured means that it cannot compete with the new site on an equal level. The odds are stacked against it. But if they are both put side by side for a year, then they can find out which one of them is more useful and popular with the users.
Calm Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Based on my experience with them, they would have conducted a survey on which form of scripture was preferred along with the new menu, etc. I participated in one of these surveys awhile back along with many others so they likely have a good estimate of which is more popular.
zerinus Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 Based on my experience with them, they would have conducted a survey on which form of scripture was preferred along with the new menu, etc. I participated in one of these surveys awhile back along with many others so they likely have a good estimate of which is more popular.I don't know how those surveys are conducted, but there is no survey like observing how they are used in practice. They can tell which is more popular, or useful, by the number of hits they get. I don't know of any survey that trumps that.The most obvious fact is that the search engine of the new scripture site is actually broke. It doesn't work, except for the simplest expressions. You can try it yourself. Try this expression: 1 Nephi 5:13; 11:2-5; 13:3, 6, 9-12 (which I wrote down off the top of my head) in both sites. In the old site it gives this result, which is brilliant. In the new result it gives this result, which is a disaster. You don't need any "survey" to know which is better. Even in simple word searches, the old site finds, arranges, and organizes the results in much better ways, and more intelligently than the new one does. Try searching for the word "Christ" in bot sites, and confining it just to the Book of Mormon. In the old site it gives this result, and in the new site it gives this result. It both cases it finds everything; but notice how intelligently (and concisely) it is organized and presented in the old site (in just two pages of results), and the opposite is the case in the new. You don't need a survey, or even a lot of brains to see that.
Maidservant Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 I was rather dismayed also.I don't want to learn the gospel when I am online, I can curl up with my book scriptures to have a spiritual experience.I use online scripture to try to remember which verse it was that had one word or phrase I remember out of it; as well as to collate large amounts of related material around single words and phrases.I was completely lost with the results of a search as it is now, it gave me a lot of topical guide headings and such, and now I just try to get to a scripture page as fast as I can so I can use the old way of searching. I don't want whole ideas given to me--I want to make my own ideas about what is actually in the text.I hope they can tell that people are doing this, because that is all I will ever do--get to where I can utilize the old way.
Calm Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 I use site:lds.org to do my searching, have for a long time as it gives more context.
zerinus Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 I use site:lds.org to do my searching, have for a long time as it gives more context.Not sure what to make of that. Do you have an answer to my previous post?
CASteinman Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 I like the website structure, but I agree about the older scriptures site.
zerinus Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 I like the website structure, but I agree about the older scriptures site.I remember sometime ago (I think close to two years ago) I started a thread similar to this, expressing my disappointment at the features of the new site, and the disappearance of the old; and one of their people came here and promised to improve things; but not a lot has happened since then.
CASteinman Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 I use site:lds.org to do my searching, have for a long time as it gives more context.Probably a good idea. The Church website seems to use a weird and not so great search engine.
zerinus Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 Probably a good idea. The Church website seems to use a weird and not so great search engine.Ummmm, lds.org is the Church website.
Calm Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Google is the search engine I am talking about when using site:lds.org. It narrows its search to just that site.
zerinus Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) Google is the search engine I am talking about when using site:lds.org. It narrows its search to just that site.I don't see how that helps. That searches the entire LDS Church website. I am talking about scripture specific word or phrase search (e.g. Christ as used in the Book of Mormon), and scripture expression search (e.g. 1 Nephi 5:13; 11:2-5; 13:3, 6, 9-12). Edited August 6, 2012 by zerinus
CASteinman Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Ummmm, lds.org is the Church website.Irrelevant.
Vance Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) This is where I go to do ALL of my searches.http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/I tried the new but HATED it. Edited to add,I mean RED HOT BURNING HATED it. Edited August 6, 2012 by Vance
Calm Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) I don't see how that helps. That searches the entire LDS Church website. I am talking about scripture specific word or phrase search (e.g. Christ as used in the Book of Mormon), and scripture expression search (e.g. 1 Nephi 5:13; 11:2-5; 13:3, 6, 9-12).You can narrow it as much as you want, just use site:classic.scriptures.lds.org/I would agree it is not as good for what you want. Edited August 6, 2012 by calmoriah
zerinus Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) This is where I go to do ALL of my searches.http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/I tried the new but HATED it.Edited to add,I mean RED HOT BURNING HATED it.The new one is just plain broke; it don't work. The proverb, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies to many aspects of moving from the old site to the new. There was nothing wrong with the old site for the most part; and any improvements needed could have been added to it without breaking the whole thing. But the new scripture site is a disaster compared to the old--at least as far as doing searches is concerned--and what is worse, there seems to be some kind of a bias against old scripture tool so that they try to keep obscuring it as much as possible; so they will eventually have an excuse for removing it altogether. I think somebody should organize a campaign to collect signatures to save the old site, and send it to the First Presidency to lobby for its preservation; and to make it more prominent on the Church's website so more people become aware of it and use it, so it won't be forgotten and consigned to oblivion. Edited August 6, 2012 by zerinus
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