The New Passive Dissent -- "Mormonstories"

[KevinG]

I think this is increasingly common. Did you read the story I posted on Cal's thread about FAIR? The one about our (then) 13 year old home teacher?

My kids go online for information about the church/the gospel the way I turned to McConkie's Mormon Doctrine.

If this weren't the new shift of the tides, the church wouldn't have launched "I'm a Mormon" online. We wouldn't have been invited specifically to join the conversation about faith online. And we wouldn't be receiving counsel about how to best represent and discuss our faith online.

IMO, it would be exceptionally naive to think these things weren't reaching an increasingly wide audience, even if they don't get discussed in "polite" LDS society (i.e. church functions, home teaching visits, or social interactions with ward members whose levels of knowledge and interest are unknown).

edit.... even in Jawjah

The spread of this kind of insider gossip and debate is known in the mission field. It is often greeted with rolling of eyes and the bolstering of our opinion of "Utah Mormons" as needing to get out more. Seriously.

I know a smattering of people who "left because of historical or social issues" and every single one of them had other more serious struggles with faith.

[mercyngrace]

The spread of this kind of insider gossip and debate is known in the mission field. It is often greeted with rolling of eyes and the bolstering of our opinion of "Utah Mormons" as needing to get out more. Seriously.

I know a smattering of people who "left because of historical or social issues" and every single one of them had other more serious struggles with faith.

Kevin,

I live in "the mission field" fairly close to you actually. And have only lived in Utah when I was at BYU and the MTC.

Our area experienced a small exodus in the last few years over historical issues - a certain book about polygamy, in fact, was circulated throughout the stake. Maybe Cal remember's me mentioning it to her - I've forgotten the name already and never did read the book. Perhaps our experiences have just been vastly different but in mine distance from Utah is less and less of a factor in exposure to even the minutiae of LDS culture.

By the way, my people are from Georgia (two of my children were born there!) My dad grew up in Atlanta back when it was a small town, as he likes to say.

[KevinG]

Obviously our experiences differ. But the vast majority of Saints don't lose their faith over the latest Mormon feminist conference or gain faith from the latest FAIR publication. To most Saints this stuff is fringe.

I like to keep myself informed and oppose the nasty plots of those who seek to destroy the faith of the Saints. I wonder what your reaction was to the book that was causing an exodus of Saints from the authorized Gospel of Jesus Christ other than avoiding conflict?

[mercyngrace]

Obviously our experiences differ. But the vast majority of Saints don't lose their faith over the latest Mormon feminist conference or gain faith from the latest FAIR publication. To most Saints this stuff is fringe.

I totally agree. The vast majority simply stop coming to church or are never fully integrated into the church.

[

I like to keep myself informed and oppose the nasty plots of those who seek to destroy the faith of the Saints. I wonder what your reaction was to the book that was causing an exodus of Saints from the authorized Gospel of Jesus Christ other than avoiding conflict?

You don't have to wonder, Kevin, just ask

I didn't read the book, It had been discussed here on the board ad nauseum and I already knew what folks here considered the most troubling bits. Finding out after the book had done it's damage and having no personal relationship with the members who left, there was little I could do, however I did forward the review of the book which I think was published by the Maxwell Institute to the person who informed me of the whole mess and encouraged her to send it to those whose testimonies had been shaken so at the very least they could see a rebuttal of some of the issues.

Well, that and praying for those who'd left.

Edited May 16, 2012 by mercyngrace

[Antoni]

It actually doesn't.....and you may not mean this as the rest of your comments seem to indicate a more limited view, but I am just pointing this out for clarification. Don't mean to come across as harsh as I likely did originally.

Rejection of God and/or the BoM identifying someone as "anti" would make all the atheists in the world "anti-mormon" even if they never heard of the LDS Church and would make all investigators who never believed the BoM is what it claims to be "antis".

An anti-mormon is someone who opposes the Church and opposition is not just rejection, but an active behaviour working against something.

I am not saying one way or the other what John Dehlin is, just pointing out that rejection in and of itself is not "anti" behaviour. If "anti-mormon" is to remain a meaningful word with the power to properly identify, we need to be careful to use it correctly.

fair point.

perhaps "undermining" rather than "anti" is better?

[B-rad00]

John,

I am a faithful, believing member of the church and I greatly appreciate your podcasts. It is the best place to get discussions on difficult church topics where multiple perspectives are presented and respected. I feel that you do a great job at leading the discussions as unbiasedly as possible.

I've found the FAIR-type apologetics to be contentious, judgmental, and arrogant. I find some of the FAIR writings to be more offensive to the image of the church and to the faith of its members than anything on mormonstories. This is because of its tone and one-sided arguments (for example, how about the FAIR gem written about Joseph Smith's polyandry?)

[tyler90az]

I added John Dehlin or his Mormon Stories on facebook. At the time I thought it was a great thing. That only lasted a few hours till I seen a post he made. Then I realized his control over Mormon Stories and its 'members' was no different then The Church. There was some type of argument on facebook and he had to ban people. The lessoned I learn is there has to be some type of control in any organization. You may not want to ex communicate(churches case) or kick (john dehlins) case, however, it jus has to happen... It just reinforced what I learned at Occupy Protests. We would always try to get a consesus on things. Yea, ummmm, that is never going to happen, were all humans.

The point I am trying to make is what John Dehiln 'preaches' against he does. Why does he do it? It is neccessary for any large group.

With that said I still support Mormon Stories.

Edited November 24, 2012 by tyler90az

[Calm]

This is because of its tone.....

FAIR is committed to dealing with tone issues where possible (we are not going to rewrite presentations by nonFAIR members obviously) in its materials. It would be very helpful if you could point to where you think the tone needs to be improved.

[Erin15]

I just wish there'd be more participation among active, faithful members of the Church. Perhaps they don't feel welcome (and after reading the comments section after several podcasts, it isn't hard to understand why)

It occurs to me that the faithful active members have very little to gain from such participation. Anti's and Ex's are normally the hardest hearts out there, and it can become a really wasteful use of your time to engage them. Remember in the Book Of Mormon, only one of the Amalekites ever came back. Often it is better to spend that time working with those with ears to hear and eyes to see. Naturally, one should follow the guidance of the spirit in such matters, but I have often found myself prompted when talking to an anti to simply say nothing and walk away.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Erin15