Saints Alive Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Who was the last Prophet to unequivocally state they had a physical visitation with the savior? Do you believe the Prophet still visits / physically speaks with the savior or is the church led by the still small voice and whisperings of the spirit?
Duncan Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Elder Haight in a 1988 or '89 GC address is what I know of
rongo Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I don't believe it's a pre-requisite (to have a personal visitation of the Savior) to be the President of the Church. Or an Apostle. Several apostles have stated that they have *not* had this experience (in the past ----- in modern times, it's not discussed either way).On the other hand, I believe there are members who have had (and do have) personal visitations of the Savior.I think that individual people's concerns over the possibility that the Brethren might not all have had personal visitations from the Savior stems from their own experience with revelation. Those who have had powerful revelatory experiences in their own lives and spheres can easily conceive of that working "at a higher pay grade." And the absolute certainty people sometimes receive through personal revelation allows me, anyway, to have full confidence in this as a principle, even if a key-holder has not heard it "face to face" from the Lord Himself.
Buzzard Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I am aware of a family member, certainly no high ranking official, who had a visitation. The calling of an apostle means that your priesthood keys now cover the entire church. It does not mean a quarterly PPI with the Savior. If you read the account of when the revelation on the priesthood occured, there was no open vision, but every member of the 12 who was there seems to have had a profuound revelatory experience.
altersteve Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 My dad, who works in security in Salt Lake City, got to meet Elder Bednar. They talked for awhile, and Elder Bednar told my dad that he cannot tell him everything that he's seen. I think this is true for all the Brethren, past and present.
Deborah Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 D&C 8 states the spirit of revelation in this way:2 Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.3 Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.If this is how Moses crossed the Red Sea then is there really anything more needed? I don't think it is necessary for every prophet to speak face to face with God and in fact as I recall many of the prophets of the OT did not but received inspiration.D&C 6:23 says this: "Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?" 1
Saints Alive Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 whether it is sufficient for prophets to be guided by the Spirit (personally i think it is) vs. speaking to God face to face is irrelevant to my OP, I am simple curious if they do still speak to God face to face or not i.e has there been any testimony of it since Joseph Smith? I don't recall Brigham Young ever claiming to have spoke to God face to face as Joseph smith did, am I wrong?
Duncan Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) whether it is sufficient for prophets to be guided by the Spirit (personally i think it is) vs. speaking to God face to face is irrelevant to my OP, I am simple curious if they do still speak to God face to face or not i.e has there been any testimony of it since Joseph Smith? I don't recall Brigham Young ever claiming to have spoke to God face to face as Joseph smith did, am I wrong?I have no idea but I know of others of the brethren that have said that they have and we'll see if I will put them up here, it's hockey night and I have priorities man, pry-ore-i-tees! Edited March 9, 2012 by Duncan
KevinG Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 The calling of an apostle means that your priesthood keys now cover the entire church. It does not mean a quarterly PPI with the Savior. That made me smile. I had the mental image of Dalin Oaks and Jesus Christ perched on small chairs in the primary room having a chat about home teaching.
KevinG Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 My dad, who works in security in Salt Lake City, got to meet Elder Bednar. They talked for awhile, and Elder Bednar told my dad that he cannot tell him everything that he's seen. I think this is true for all the Brethren, past and present.Security in SLC? I bet your dad has seen things he'd rather not talk about too- or even remember!!
altersteve Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 Security in SLC? I bet your dad has seen things he'd rather not talk about too- or even remember!!He's also a paramedic and a former firefighter, and he was in the U.S. Coast Guard years ago. So yeah, definitely, haha.
rongo Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 whether it is sufficient for prophets to be guided by the Spirit (personally i think it is) vs. speaking to God face to face is irrelevant to my OP, I am simple curious if they do still speak to God face to face or not i.e has there been any testimony of it since Joseph Smith? I don't recall Brigham Young ever claiming to have spoke to God face to face as Joseph smith did, am I wrong?Brigham Young, specifically (and his beloved counselor, Heber C. Kimball, and Orson Pratt) said that he/they had not. That is, they were on the record specifically regarding this question.I certainly believe that it can/does still happen; I just don't think it *has* to. In any event, it's at the Lord's behest, not on demand from us (i.e., if I'm the Prophet, then He should be visiting me). 1
fatherofone Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 the Lord has said all he needs to, why does he need to visit anymore?
inquiringmind Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 Brigham Young, specifically (and his beloved counselor, Heber C. Kimball, and Orson Pratt) said that he/they had not. That is, they were on the record specifically regarding this question.I certainly believe that it can/does still happen; I just don't think it *has* to. In any event, it's at the Lord's behest, not on demand from us (i.e., if I'm the Prophet, then He should be visiting me).So Brigham, Kimball, and Pratt (and most of the living prophets of the Church) never arrived at the place Joseph spoke of here?After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses . . . .“Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions—Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.” ( Teachings, pp. 149–51.)http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-081-88.asp
Lightbearer Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Who was the last Prophet to unequivocally state they had a physical visitation with the savior? Do you believe the Prophet still visits / physically speaks with the savior or is the church led by the still small voice and whisperings of the spirit? Lorenzo Snow comes to mind, he stated that he saw the Savior in the Salt Lake Temple. This account was repeated to me the first time I went through the Salt Lake Temple. Also when I was serving a mission in 1981 I heard that President Spencer W. Kimball had alluded to a member of the press that he had experienced such a visitation. (This last one I have no reference for so don't ask me for a CFR). I suppose all could have had a physical visitation from the savior, but I have noticed that in modern times the brethren have been less free about sharing such experiences than in times past. There could be reasons for this, I have an idea that in our day faith is rather wanting, in fact many of the comments on this board indicate that people are less likely to believe a vision than they are just a feeling from the spirit. I think it is because a feeling can easily be "explained away" by those bent on denying revelation from God. Also another factor may be at work as well: "It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him. And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full. And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell." (Book of Mormon | Alma 12:9-11) The truth is the witness of the spirit is more powerful upon the minds of men than an actual visitation could be. I think if a personal visitation is necessary to get the message across (as with the First Vision) then that is the means the Lord will use. If He can get it across with the witness of the spirit then that is what He will do. However all of us not just the prophets have the privledge of seeing God if we will pay the price:"VERILY, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;"(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 93:1) I do not believe that the prophet or apostles of today are any less of the spiritual giants of the prophets of the early days of the Church. Also there is another thought that explains why some have seen and others have not: "Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will." (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:68) It must be according to the Lord's own will.
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