MatthewG Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 "Jan Shipps, a religion professor at Indiana University-Purdue University in Indianapolis, and one of the preeminent non-Mormon authorities on the church."From this article on RomneyI could careless about anyone's opinion on politics, just curious if you agree with the above statement and if not why. I really have no idea who she is but the name is vaguely familiar.
LeSellers Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) "Jan Shipps, a religion professor at Indiana University-Purdue University in Indianapolis, and one of the preeminent non-Mormon authorities on the church."I could careless [sic] about anyone's opinion on politics, just curious if you agree with the above statement and if not why. I really have no idea who she is but the name is vaguely familiar. I agree: Shipps is one of the preeminent non-Mormon authorities on the Church.That does not make her conclusions and premises correct.Lehi Edited January 18, 2012 by LeSellers
Sky Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 She is a respected academic both in and out of the Church. She treats us fairly. And she might be as close as it comes to being a neutral outside observer.
Emerson Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Yup. She has been the go-to non-Mormon voice on LDS history since the mid-eighties. Though she is well advanced in years now (though she'll hopefully finish her book on post-WW2 Mormonism soon), and there are several other respected non-Mormon scholars gaining stature (Laurie Maffly-Kipp and Sally Gordon being the most prominent, but Seth Perry, Max Mueller, and John Turner are some of the younger generation), her's is an opinion heavily respected within the academy and the Church itself.
Jeff K. Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 The issue seems to be whether or not a private citizen can give private shares to a church as a charitable contribution. They can. The unmentioned question is whether or not as President he would send lucrative deals to the church. Public office is significantly different from private enterprise. If one could find, looking at the governorship of Mass., any such actions, then there should be worry. But all factions have gone over Romney's public office with a fine tooth comb, and no such activity exists in any form. 1
Sky Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) The issue seems to be whether or not a private citizen can give private shares to a church as a charitable contribution. They can. The unmentioned question is whether or not as President he would send lucrative deals to the church. Public office is significantly different from private enterprise. If one could find, looking at the governorship of Mass., any such actions, then there should be worry. But all factions have gone over Romney's public office with a fine tooth comb, and no such activity exists in any form.I think this belongs in another thread.-Edit-Sorry, Jeff K. Didn't realize you were commenting on the article linked to in the OP. Edited January 18, 2012 by Sky
cinepro Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I had quite a bit to say about Jan Shipps, but I think Jeff K. has said it all and then some.
MatthewG Posted January 18, 2012 Author Posted January 18, 2012 The issue seems to be whether or not a private citizen can give private shares to a church as a charitable contribution. They can. The unmentioned question is whether or not as President he would send lucrative deals to the church. Public office is significantly different from private enterprise. If one could find, looking at the governorship of Mass., any such actions, then there should be worry. But all factions have gone over Romney's public office with a fine tooth comb, and no such activity exists in any form.This doesn't concern me. The quoted part does. I specifically stated I wasn't interested in politics or the topic of the link, just whether she can really be given the title the article gave her.
Jeff K. Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) She can, her research is fairly extensive, while not always positive, the negativity can be ascribed to something as simple as interpretation rather than malice. I think the phrase or term pre-eminent is justified. Edited January 18, 2012 by Jeff K.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 "Jan Shipps, a religion professor at Indiana University-Purdue University in Indianapolis, and one of the preeminent non-Mormon authorities on the church."From this article on RomneyI could careless about anyone's opinion on politics, just curious if you agree with the above statement and if not why. I really have no idea who she is but the name is vaguely familiar. She is a Methodist and has always treated Mormons fairly -- having close Mormon friends from early in her academic training. Some used to speak of her as the "den mother" of the Mormon History Association, and she was merciless in enforcing the old rules against tape recording lectures at the MHA (I have seen her grab a tape recorder, remove the cassette, and pull out the actual tape -- very funny!!). She has written a series of very penetrating and original articles and books on the Mormons. At the LDS Church Office Bldg a staffer was heard to say: "She understands us."
rameumptom Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Jan Shipps lived in Utah with her husband for many years. As a historian, particularly a religious historian, she took up doing research on the LDS, when no one else was really interested in doing serious Mormon history. She has several books out on Mormonism, and has been involved in many major symposiums on the LDS over the years. She is still doing research and writing on Mormonism, btw.I am glad they asked her and not some others who pretend to know or understand Mormonism. I think she understands our history, politics, etc., better than even many members of the Church do. And she is fair about all of it. Her writings remind me of Richard Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling. Neither pulls any punches, but both are fair and balanced in their assessments.
Jeff K. Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Most of the others crib their work from Shipp's research.
KevinG Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Most of the others crib their work from Shipp's research.In a twisted sort of way that's probably the highest praise you can give.
Nevo Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 She has several books out on Mormonism...By "several" I guess you mean two—and the second is a collection of essays, not a scholarly monograph.Most of the others crib their work from Shipp's research.That's nonsense. Shipps made her name with one book (Mormonism) and a few important lectures/articles (e.g., "The Prophet Puzzle"), which evidenced her skill in analyzing and synthesizing already available historical data. She is not particularly renowned for uncovering new sources.
Jeff K. Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Jeff K., on 19 January 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:Most of the others crib their work from Shipp's research.That's nonsense. Shipps made her name with one book (Mormonism) and a few important lectures/articles (e.g., "The Prophet Puzzle"), which evidenced her skill in analyzing and synthesizing already available historical data. She is not particularly renowned for uncovering new sources.What you have written doesn't negate my statement.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 By "several" I guess you mean two—and the second is a collection of essays, not a scholarly monograph.That's nonsense. Shipps made her name with one book (Mormonism) and a few important lectures/articles (e.g., "The Prophet Puzzle"), which evidenced her skill in analyzing and synthesizing already available historical data. She is not particularly renowned for uncovering new sources.JAN SHIPPS (1929- )Professor Emerita of History and Religion, Indiana Univ-Purdue Univ.President of the Mormon History Association (1979–80), the John Whitmer Historical Society (2004–05), and the American Society of Church History (2006).Hansen, Klaus J., “The Long Honeymoon : Jan Shipps Among the Mormons,” Dialogue, 37/3 (Fall 2004):1-28. Books:Shipps, Jan, The Mormons in Politics : The First Hundred Years (Boulder: Univ. of Colorado, 1965).Shipps, Jan, Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition (University of Illinois Press, 1985/1987).Shipps, Jan, Twentieth-Century Mormonism and the Secular Establishment (Ogden: Weber State College, 1988).Shipps, Jan, and David Smith, eds., Taking Stock and Charting Change: Religious Reconfigurations in America Since the Sixties (Indianapolis: private printing, 1990).Shipps, Jan, The Scattering of the Gathered and the Gathering of the Scattered : The Mormon Diaspora in the Mid-Twentieth Century (St. George: Dixie College, 1991).Shipps, Jan, and John W. Welch, ed., The Journals of William McLellin, 1831-1836 (BYU, 1994).Shipps, Jan, Sojourner in the Promised Land: Forty Years among the Mormons (Univ. of Illinois Press, 2000). Includes an intellectual autobiography, and many important essays.Shipps, Jan, Signifying Sainthood, 1830-2001 (Utah State Univ. Press, 2002).Shipps, Jan, and Mark Silk, eds., Religion and Public Life in the Mountain West: Sacred Landscapes in Transition (Walnut Creek: AltaMira Press, 2004).Over 100 journal articles and lectures, including: Shipps, Jan, “Second Class Saints,” Colorado Quarterly, 11 (Autumn 1962):183-90.Shipps, Jan, “From Satyr to Saint: American Attitudes toward the Mormons, 1860-1960,” paper presented April 1973 at the annual meeting of the Organization of American Historians.Shipps, Jan, “The Mormons: Looking Forward and Outward,” Christian Century, August 16-23, 1978, 761-766.Shipps, Jan, “A Little Known Account of the Murders of Joseph and Hyrum Smith,” BYU Studies, 14/3 (1974):1-3.Shipps, Jan, “Sonia Johnson, Mormonism and the Media,” Christian Century, 97 (Jan 2, 1980):5-6.Shipps, Jan, “An ‘Insider-Outsider’ in Zion,” Dialogue,15/1 (Spring 1982):138–161.Shipps, Jan, “Mormonism: An Independent Interpretation,” in D. Ludlow, ed., Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 5 vols. (Macmillan, 1992), II:937-941.Shipps, Jan, “‘Is Mormonism Christian?’ Reflections on a Complicated Question,” BYU Studies, 33/3 (1993):439-465.Shipps, Jan, “A Bird's-eye View of the Mormon Prophet” (review of Robert V. Remini, Joseph Smith), FARMS Review, 15/2 (2002):443-452.Shipps, Jan, “Joseph Smith and the Making of a Global Religion,” BYU Studies, 44/4 (2005):293-305 = The Worlds of Joseph Smith issue, papers presented at the bicentennial of Joseph Smith’s birth symposium at the Library of Congress.
Nevo Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) JAN SHIPPS (1929- )Professor Emerita of History and Religion, Indiana Univ-Purdue Univ.President of the Mormon History Association (1979–80), the John Whitmer Historical Society (2004–05), and the American Society of Church History (2006).[snip]I'm not trying to downplay Shipps's accomplishments. She has written a lot of articles and given a lot of lectures over the last 30 plus years. She is undoubtedly a respected authority on Mormonism. But she has only written one book about Mormonism (or two if you count her anthology of articles and essays published in 2000).Shipps, Jan, The Mormons in Politics: The First Hundred Years (Boulder: Univ. of Colorado, 1965). [Ph.D thesis, unpublished]Shipps, Jan, Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition (University of Illinois Press, 1985/1987). [book]Shipps, Jan, Twentieth-Century Mormonism and the Secular Establishment (Ogden: Weber State College, 1988). [Lecture, 35pp.]Shipps, Jan, and David Smith, eds., Taking Stock and Charting Change: Religious Reconfigurations in America Since the Sixties (Indianapolis: private printing, 1990). [Edited volume]Shipps, Jan, The Scattering of the Gathered and the Gathering of the Scattered : The Mormon Diaspora in the Mid-Twentieth Century (St. George: Dixie College, 1991). [Lecture, 21 pp.]Shipps, Jan, and John W. Welch, ed., The Journals of William McLellin, 1831-1836 (BYU, 1994). [Edited volume]Shipps, Jan, Sojourner in the Promised Land: Forty Years among the Mormons (Univ. of Illinois Press, 2000). Includes an intellectual autobiography, and many important essays. [Essay collection]Shipps, Jan, Signifying Sainthood, 1830-2001 (Utah State Univ. Press, 2002). [Lecture, 34 pp.]Shipps, Jan, and Mark Silk, eds., Religion and Public Life in the Mountain West: Sacred Landscapes in Transition (Walnut Creek: AltaMira Press, 2004). [Edited volume] Edited January 19, 2012 by Nevo 1
Robert F. Smith Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I'm not trying to downplay Shipps's accomplishments. She has written a lot of articles and given a lot of lectures over the last 30 plus years. She is undoubtedly a respected authority on Mormonism. But she has only written one book about Mormonism (or two if you count her anthology of articles and essays published in 2000).Shipps, Jan, The Mormons in Politics: The First Hundred Years (Boulder: Univ. of Colorado, 1965). [Ph.D thesis, unpublished]Shipps, Jan, Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition (University of Illinois Press, 1985/1987). [book]Shipps, Jan, Twentieth-Century Mormonism and the Secular Establishment (Ogden: Weber State College, 1988). [Lecture, 35pp.]Shipps, Jan, and David Smith, eds., Taking Stock and Charting Change: Religious Reconfigurations in America Since the Sixties (Indianapolis: private printing, 1990). [Edited volume]Shipps, Jan, The Scattering of the Gathered and the Gathering of the Scattered : The Mormon Diaspora in the Mid-Twentieth Century (St. George: Dixie College, 1991). [Lecture, 21 pp.]Shipps, Jan, and John W. Welch, ed., The Journals of William McLellin, 1831-1836 (BYU, 1994). [Edited volume]Shipps, Jan, Sojourner in the Promised Land: Forty Years among the Mormons (Univ. of Illinois Press, 2000). Includes an intellectual autobiography, and many important essays. [Essay collection]Shipps, Jan, Signifying Sainthood, 1830-2001 (Utah State Univ. Press, 2002). [Lecture, 34 pp.]Shipps, Jan, and Mark Silk, eds., Religion and Public Life in the Mountain West: Sacred Landscapes in Transition (Walnut Creek: AltaMira Press, 2004). [Edited volume]Over the past 50 years (since her first article on Mormons in 1962), Shipps has done remarkable and original work on Mormonism, some of it in concert with others. Her doctoral dissertation, far from being unpublished, is readily available in hardback, softcover, or in pdf download form at http://disexpress.umi.com/dxweb (in fact, UMI in Ann Arbor had already published it in 1974). On-demand publishing now makes the old notion of "unpublished" theses and dissertations rather silly.Since she has other materials and books in preparation, we should not be poormouthing her production. In fact, she has done much original research, including a detailed analysis of all of Joseph's unpublished revelations. We have yet to see any published form of some of her most important work.
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