Wall Steet Riots, And The History Of The Fed Reserve

[changed]

I was just reading this book:

The Federal Reserve Conspiracy - Antony Sutton

It is a good book to read (you can read the whole thing online, it's a pretty fast read - be sure to maximize the screen first though - upper RH corner)

so - what is everyone's opinions on the riots that are going on? They seem a little confusing to me... at first they seem a little like liberals (anti-corporation, anti-rich, etc. etc.) but then there is a strong conservative tea-party element to them too (I think most tea-party members agree that the Fed Reserve is unconstitutional - an illegal, corrupt entity - the above link was written by a conservative as an example)

Do you think being against the Federal Reserve could be something that could partially unite the left and right - if presented properly?

from the above link:

“If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks … will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. The issuing power of money should be taken from the banks and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies.” – Jefferson

It started in 1790, when the autocratic Hamilton created the first private $ monopoly in the US (the Bank of the United States)

“Hamilton recommended a National Bank (which was the preclude to the Fed Reserve)… It was to be erected into a legal corporation for thirty years, during which no other bank, public or private, was to be permitted. Its capital and deposits were to be exempt from taxation, and the United States, collectively and particularly, were to become conjointly responsible for all its transactions. Its sources of profit were to be the sole right of issuing a currency for the United States equal in amount to the whole capital stock of the bank.” – George Bancroft

William McClay “I told them plainly that I was no advocate of the banking system; that I considered themmachines for promoting the profits of unproductive Men; .. that the whole profit of the bank ought to belong to the public, provided it was possible to advance the whole stock on her account.”

The Senate committee was stacked (Hamilton, his father-in-law, and a bunch of cronies) … Thomas Jefferson (sec of State) and Edmund Randolph (Attorney gen) found the bank to be unconstitutional. Jefferson said of the bank “The Bill delivers us up bound to be National Bank, who are free to refuse all arrangements, but on their own terms, and the public not free, on such refusal, to employ any other bank.”

etc. etc. - the book is worth the read!

So the Fed Reserve is a private Bank that answers to no one. No audits, no annual reports, no nothing - and it controls interest rates, money - it controls the US economy, makes tons of money off of us (money that should be going back to the American people) ... it's a big scandal how the Fed Res came to be (1913) and that it continues to exist...

So liberals feel like something unfair is going on - rich getting richer, poor getting poor - that we need to tax the rich to make things better... but this riot seems to indicate that perhaps they will start attacking entities like the Fed Reserve instead the attacking those who earn an honest living? I agree with them for once that we need to take down the Fed Reserve - and I think most tea-partiers would agree that the Fed is unconstitutional etc. etc.

anyways, if some of the liberals, and some of the conservatives are both against this entity - that could be a uniting power I think....

[changed]

Occupy Wall Street: Mass Economic Riots Are Now Here And America Will Never Be The Same

"If the Occupy Wall Street movement and the Tea Party movement joined together to protest the abuses of the Federal Reserve and the abuses of Wall Street they would be a very powerful force."

[ERayR]

Till shut down 5 - 4 -3 -2 -1--.

[ERayR]

Occupy Wall Street: Mass Economic Riots Are Now Here And America Will Never Be The Same

"If the Occupy Wall Street movement and the Tea Party movement joined together to protest the abuses of the Federal Reserve and the abuses of Wall Street they would be a very powerful force."

Those two movements are ideologically opposed. One for more government one for less.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

My 2 cents, those people protesting there, at Wall Street, are idiots.

K, now we can close it down.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Mansquatch]

Even social hall political discussion gets shut down?? Maybe time to read the rules again.

As for the topic, I think it is very easy to get people to hate our current system and setup (because it is awful) and call it "capitalism" (or "capitolism" if you are these protesters) even though what we have is not really capitalism and hasn't been for a while. I see the "occupy wall street" crowd as a very uninformed (and yes Mola, idiotic) version of the Tea Party who then can be useful (idiots) to cause a ruckus and maybe make some problems for people in power to use their pre-existing solutions on. Statist types have been plotting these things for a long time. This group even has a list of "demands" as if they were terrorists or hostage takers.

[oats]

Watching this unfold from Canada (which won't be far behind the US to arrive at such a horrible political state, if our Prime Minister has his way), and seeing individuals dismiss the prosters as 'idiots' and 'ignorant' so feverishly makes me wonder why it is so hard for Americans to see any legitimacy in the concerns they raise.

Same goes for whatever other groups form to address problems.

So many people are so polarized, fractured, uninformed and unwilling to be informed about the motivations and reasons of others that they have lost ability to separate the wheat from the chaff in the opinions of others - whether disagreeable or not. When I was a missionary I experienced the same mentality. Only a very small percentage of people could have a conversation that explored ideas without being completely defensive or aggressive. It's a non-violent, as of yet, extremism that's a symptom of some problem.

I agree that some of the protesters are fluff brained, especially the ones that many US news networks choose to place on air. But for those who have not noticed, or had the privilege of living outside the US Media bubble, you get very skewed news reports that typically fail to represent any movement with any accuracy.

There is legitimacy in the occupy wall street message. US policy, and the framework that is created to regulate society and the 'free markets', is dictated and influenced by a small circle of people who can, and do, tilt the playing field of your country in certain directions through hidden agendas, backroom deals and what may even boil down to conspiracy. I used to forgo judgments about their decisions by using the reasoning, 'They can't let us know all the things they know, their decisions are based on what is best for the country long-term'. It's the same benefit I give to church leaders. However, it is becoming plainly obvious that individuals with power in this country have been setting the stage for great abuse for a long time. It's too blatant to be done out of ignorance so I can't even give that credit.

There is an embeded culture of money in politics, an acceptance of law breaking, policy making to favour large interests and a good deal of insider information that is being used to abuse the entire nation for the benefit of very few.

It is easy to access information. The back room deeds of these people are becoming clearer thanks to the internet. The politicians, and their adulterous love affairs, are becoming clearer. People can choose to call those responding 'ignorant' and 'idiots' but there is something to it - even if it's not 100% clarified.

If it became obvious that the general authorities of the church were abusing power or misdirecting us, with the help of certain individuals outside the power structure, then I would cease reserving cynical judgment whenever there was a lack of information. I would cease imputing good motives and I would cease following them.

That's about where my thoughts are in regards to what they are doing and what their message is. Maybe it seems 'idiotic' because it's unrefined and unpolished in its presentation. Get over it. Truth will cut its own way... unless nobody wants it to. Then whatever happens is what is deserved.

/end rant.

(Here are some very illustrative articles that give a sense of the difference in attitudes among bankers. Google 'Mark Carney Jaime Dimon' for more)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/daily-mix/carney-v-dimon-a-clash-of-world-views/article2181747/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/09/26/carney-basel-reforms-dimon.html

[cinepro]

I've never understood the Fed.

As capitalists, we laugh at the idea that we could create a group of 7 people that could centrally manage anything. We mocked the USSR for their centralized planning, and the idea that a guy sitting at a desk could somehow know how many rolls of toilet paper needed to be made in a month. We all understood how such planning led to shortages (or surplus) and a mismanagement of resources.

But now we're supposed to believe that group of seven individuals are somehow capable of understanding all the factors in the US economy and can rationally set interest rates (and take other actions) to a point that will lead to beneficial growth (assuming that's even their goal)? Of course they can't. And yet everyone pretends to be so surprised when Fed polices and actions don't produce the desired result.

As for the protestors, I heard some of their "demands" this morning and they have to be the dumbest economic ideas I've heard in a while. Not that I expected much from a bunch of people who start a tent city heading into a New York winter. They're an absolute joke.

[cinepro]

In case anyone missed it, here are the demands presented by "Occupy Wall St.":

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

Edited October 5, 2011 by cinepro