Jesus, Eternally God?

[wenglund]

I wish to use the words of Joseph Smith to declare that in order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, and how he came to be God; for I am going to tell you how he came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that Jesus Christ was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.

Am I suggesting that Jesus Christ was in no way "God" from all eternities? No. I believe in some respects he was, while in other respects he wasn't.

This thread is devoted to discussing both the way in which we each may believe he was and wasn't God eternal, and this with the intent of better understanding what Joseph Smith meant when he spoke about God the Father in the King Follett Discourse.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

For my part, within the following posts I will first explicate at least these two ways in which I believe that Jesus Christ was God for all eternity (as the ancient Hebrews understood the word "eternity"):

1. God the Son

2. God the Counselor, the second of three members of the Godhead.

Second, I will the explicate these ways in which I believe Jesus Christ was not God prior to foundations of the earth or prior to his mortal birth or resurrection, but later became God eternal:

1. He was not ultimately the perfected God.

2. He was not God the Father.

3. He was not God omniscient.

4. He was not God omnipotent.

5. He was not God, possessor of all things.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[thesometimesaint]

wengland:

As LDS believe that it requires a physical body to be perfect. Jesus was also required to be born, live on this earth, and die a physical death to become perfect as his Father in Heaven is perfect.

True. However we become the adopted children of Jesus the Christ through becoming members of his Church, and continuous keeping of his commandment.

True. At least in his mortal life. He did learn line upon line, precept upon precept just like the rest of us. However we have no way of knowing just what he knew, but didn't tell us about.

I disagree that he wasn't omnipotent.

Please define by what you mean by possessor of all things.

[wenglund]

God the Son

We members of Christ's church believe that prior to the foundations of the earth Jesus Christ was born as a spirit child of our Heavenly Father. And, because he was God's son, this made him equal with God (John 5:18; Philippians 2:6), and thus "God" for all eternity (as the ancient Hebrews understood the word "eternity"), even as we, as children of Heavenly Father, may be considered as "Gods" (Psalm 82:6; John 10:34).

However, in the same sense, Christ is more entitled than us to the appellation of "God" because:

1. He is the only begotten of the Father in the Flesh (John 1:14). He, alone, then, may be considered as God in the flesh.

2. We believe he is the eldest of the Father's spirit children, and the firstborn into the resurrection, and by virtue of his birthright is entitled to be called "God" for all eternity.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[mfbukowski]

We are all familiar with the LDS usage "from eternity to eternity".

The question becomes, for me, which "eternity" are we talking about? He could theoretically be "eternally" God in one, but not another "eternity"

What constitutes an "eternity"? Who knows? One big bang, with one return to a black hole which then erupts into another "eternity"? Each with its own time context? I don't pretend to know. Yet I think this might be one possibility.

Edited October 3, 2011 by mfbukowski

[wenglund]

wengland:

As LDS believe that it requires a physical body to be perfect. Jesus was also required to be born, live on this earth, and die a physical death to become perfect as his Father in Heaven is perfect.

True. However we become the adopted children of Jesus the Christ through becoming members of his Church, and continuous keeping of his commandment.

True. At least in his mortal life. He did learn line upon line, precept upon precept just like the rest of us. However we have no way of knowing just what he knew, but didn't tell us about.

I disagree that he wasn't omnipotent.

Please define by what you mean by possessor of all things.

Good points, and I will explain more in-depth what I mean by "possessor of all things" as well as the ways in which I view the pre-resurrected Christ as not directly omnipotent. But, first, I wish to explain the various ways I view Christ as "God" for all eternity.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

We are all familiar with the LDS usage "from eternity to eternity". The question becomes, for me, which "eternity" are we talking about? He could theoretically be "eternally" God in one, but not another "eternity" What constitutes an "eternity"? Who knows? One big bang, with one return to a black hole which then erupts into another "eternity"? Each with its own time context? I don't pretend to know. Yet I think this might be one possibility.

This is complicated even further for those who believe God lives outside of time.

I prefer to use the word "eternity" the way the ancient Hebrews understood it (meaning some non-definitive amount of time in human past or future) because it concerns itself solely with what is pertinent to our own existence, and avoids philosophizing about all the unknowable infinite regressions or so forth that is of little or no benefit in working our our salvation.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Maidservant]

One idea that I feel I learned is that WHAT is God doesn't change. That is . . . God is love, justice, mercy, perfectly clean, creates, etc etc etc. You cannot remove godliness and still have God. And godliness is unchanging, eternal, always there, always accessible . . . for those who will, who are willing to become Gods (that is, willing to become One with other beings, just, clean, loving, merciful, etc etc etc).

Furthermore, at least from the point of view of our present "here and now", there have been endless processions of beings, endless worlds created and passed away, with the same work of "the immortality and eternal life" . . . all the children of God. And all these, as One, are God, and this union cannot be dissolved or broken . . . only added to.

Thus if we have a being, like our Father, like Jesus (or Jehovah), who has access to all this, and lives by all of this . . . then also, this being is God, because he (or she) has entered into the presence of the Father, whether premortal, mortal, or otherwise have been completed yet.

Even if Jesus (or Jehovah) was not "complete" to begin with, he has been and is the direct agent of the Father. He carries the Father's name, seal, authority, and so when Jesus Christ stands before us, quite often he is representing the Father directly anyway (rather than himself as Christ, per se). And so in this way also, this investiture, he always was God at least in terms of all work done for, by and on this earth.

Also, we forget sometimes that we all lived a celestial existence (=gods) before we chose to come here for this progression, and we left that. We all lived celestial law (until at least the opportunity to follow the adversary presented itself in the grand council), as children (here on earth, we are trying to learn to live the celestial law independently, so to speak). So one can say that Jehovah was God in the same way we all are and have been (sons of God)

[orion88]

We are all familiar with the LDS usage "from eternity to eternity".

The question becomes, for me, which "eternity" are we talking about? He could theoretically be "eternally" God in one, but not another "eternity"

What constitutes an "eternity"? Who knows? One big bang, with one return to a black hole which then erupts into another "eternity"? Each with its own time context? I don't pretend to know. Yet I think this might be one possibility.

From my understanding of LDS theology, eternal progression means the development

of a being (who is not a God) into a being (who is a God).

Are you a God right now? I think you would say "no." Do you hope to become a God

sometime in the future? I think you would say "yes" or "I hope so."

If you end up redefining terms, you'll drastically alter the teachings of the prophets

you claim to believe in.

Tony

[wenglund]

God the Councilor

We believe that by virtue of his birthright and having been the one to propose and champion the implemented Plan of Salvation and Exaltation, Jesus Christ was ordained as a member of the Godhead, and as such was made "God."

He has been, and will continue to be a councilor to the Father, the right hand of God (Psalm 48:10; Isaiah 41:10;Mark 16:19), and intercessor between God and man (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25), our Lord and God for all eternities.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

One idea that I feel I learned is that WHAT is God doesn't change. That is . . . God is love, justice, mercy, perfectly clean, creates, etc etc etc. You cannot remove godliness and still have God. And godliness is unchanging, eternal, always there, always accessible . . . for those who will, who are willing to become Gods (that is, willing to become One with other beings, just, clean, loving, merciful, etc etc etc). Furthermore, at least from the point of view of our present "here and now", there have been endless processions of beings, endless worlds created and passed away, with the same work of "the immortality and eternal life" . . . all the children of God. And all these, as One, are God, and this union cannot be dissolved or broken . . . only added to. Thus if we have a being, like our Father, like Jesus (or Jehovah), who has access to all this, and lives by all of this . . . then also, this being is God, because he (or she) has entered into the presence of the Father, whether premortal, mortal, or otherwise have been completed yet. Even if Jesus (or Jehovah) was not "complete" to begin with, he has been and is the direct agent of the Father. He carries the Father's name, seal, authority, and so when Jesus Christ stands before us, quite often he is representing the Father directly anyway (rather than himself as Christ, per se). And so in this way also, this investiture, he always was God at least in terms of all work done for, by and on this earth. Also, we forget sometimes that we all lived a celestial existence (=gods) before we chose to come here for this progression, and we left that. We all lived celestial law (until at least the opportunity to follow the adversary presented itself in the grand council), as children (here on earth, we are trying to learn to live the celestial law independently, so to speak). So one can say that Jehovah was God in the same way we all are and have been (sons of God)

Nicely said.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Maidservant]

If you end up redefining terms, you'll drastically alter the teachings of the prophets

you claim to believe in.

It's called midrash .

It's not so much redefining terms, as recognizing that definitions never have been static, and trying to understand things in whole. And it is important to take the "Run, Jane, Run" versions of the knowledge templates we've been given, and seek more from it, gain ever-increasing context. The story of Noah's Ark or Daniel and the Lion's Den, as taught to 3 year olds, is going to be a different discussion in a teenage class and different than in gospel doctrine sunday school class (adults) . . . the story doesn't change, but we start to understand between the lines based on experience and study that can be brought to bear.

I also find that Webster dictionary versions of definitions often are a barrier to actually realizing what scripture definitions or understanding is . . . because human society and concepts have changed over time, if for no other reason.

There is only one prophet with doctrinal authority today, and that is President Thomas S. Monson. Joseph Smith himself has no doctrinal authority in this day, although of course, much of what we do and believe confirms past teaching (both in the latter-day and anciently); and some of what we do is a little more new due new needs, and new understandings, new revelations.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Maidservant

[wenglund]

From my understanding of LDS theology, eternal progression means the development of a being (who is not a God) into a being (who is a God). Are you a God right now? I think you would say "no." Do you hope to become a God sometime in the future? I think you would say "yes" or "I hope so." If you end up redefining terms, you'll drastically alter the teachings of the prophets you claim to believe in. Tony

You answered incorrectly for me, evincing that from my perspective you do not correctly understand, and have ironically and drastically altered, the teachings of the prophet I believe in. [thumbs down]

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[orion88]

What was Jesus before he had a Heavenly Father?

Edited October 3, 2011 by orion88

[Maidservant]

What was Jesus when his father was just being born as the first spirit child of His Heavenly

Parents (i.e. Jesus' Grandfather God and Grandmother Goddess)?

Start here in D & C 93. It answers or at least speaks to all the questions raised in this thread, both Wade's and yours. For your question, go especially to verses: 3, 21, 28, 29, 33, 35.

I tried to post all the text here, but the tags were messing up and I cannot fix that, so here is the link to D & C 93.

http://lds.org/scrip....29?lang=eng#28

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my fface and know that I am;

2 And that I am the true alight that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

3 And that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one—

4 The Father because he gave me of his fulness, and the Son because I was in the world and made flesh my tabernacle, and dwelt among the sons of men.

5 I was in the world and received of my Father, and the works of him were plainly manifest.

6 And John saw and bore record of the fulness of my glory, and the fulness of John’s record is hereafter to be revealed.

7 And he bore record, saying: I saw his glory, that he was in the beginning, before the world was;

8 Therefore, in the beginning the Word was, for he was the Word, even the messenger of salvation—

9 The alight and the Redeemer of the world; the Spirit of truth, who came into the world, because the world was made by him, and in him was the life of men and the light of men.

10 The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him.

11 And I, John, bear record that I beheld his glory, as the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us.

12 And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace;

13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;

14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first.

15 And I, John, bear record, and lo, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove, and sat upon him, and there came a voice out of heaven saying: This is my beloved Son.

16 And I, John, bear record that he received a fulness of the glory of the Father;

17 And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him.

18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.

21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;

22 And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn.

23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth;

24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.

26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;

27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.

28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the alight is under condemnation.

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.

37 Light and truth forsake that evil one.

38 Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God.

39 And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers.

40 But I have commanded you to bring up your children in light and truth.

(Here is the text - if you paste it into MS word as text only then copy and paste it into your comment you can get rid of the tags. I will ask Nemesis if there is any way to make this easier. -Ares)

Edited October 4, 2011 by Maidservant

[wenglund]

Now that I have presented several ways in which I believe that Jesus Christ was God for all eternity, I will now set forth several ways in which I believe he became "God" during his pre-mortality, mortality, and resurrection.

Perfected God

In Matthew 5:48 Christ commanded, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Note that he didn't command his disciples to be perfect as he is perfect, but rather as their Father in Heaven is perfect.

In a way, I believe the phrasing wasn 't coincidental but significant in at least two ways. First, it was for the disciples then, and is now for us, both a call to action in the present tense (be ye now perfect or sinless), but also it is as a call to the process of perfection, the path of which is exemplified in Christ so that one day we may be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect.

Second, it is suggestive that while Christ was sinless during mortality, and thus perfect in that sense, and grew in perfection from grace to grace, he did not ultimately become perfected until the third day (Luke 13:32), when he was resurrected and became perfect even as his Father in Heaven is perfect.

Then, following his resurrection, he was able to rightly declare to "his other sheep," "Therefore I would that ye should be ^aperfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect." (3rd Nephi 12:48)

By virtue of his resurrection, Christ became a perfected God, even as his Heavenly Father is perfect God.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited October 3, 2011 by wenglund

[wenglund]

God the Father

Previously, I pointed out that we believe that Christ was God for all eternity in the sense that he was God the Son.

However, prior to the foundations of the earth, he was not God in the sense of being God the Father. By this I mean he was not yet a Father God like his Heavenly Father.

Through his efforts as Creator, though, as well as through his marriage to the Church and the subsequent spiritual birth and adoption of his spiritual children (via baptism of the water and spirit and ultimately the resurrection), he became God the "Everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6), even as has been and is God, the Eternal Father.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited October 3, 2011 by wenglund

[mfbukowski]

If you end up redefining terms, you'll drastically alter the teachings of the prophets

you claim to believe in.

No, you just drastically alter what YOU THINK those teachings were.

[mfbukowski]

This is complicated even further for those who believe God lives outside of time.

I prefer to use the word "eternity" the way the ancient Hebrews understood it (meaning some non-definitive amount of time in human past or future) because it concerns itself solely with what is pertinent to our own existence, and avoids philosophizing about all the unknowable infinite regressions or so forth that is of little or no benefit in working our our salvation.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I think the only problem with that view that it is all just a really long time is that then both time and space could not have started with the Big Bang, so I think you have a problem with the science then.

On the other hand, perhaps God can be both "in" and "out" of time, as perhaps the resurrected Christ could move, possibly, between dimensions, appearing in locked rooms etc.

Clearly, the person Jesus was a temporal Being at the same time he was God, which I would think would either make us start talking about "dual natures" with our Catholic buddies, (which you know I am not likely to want to do)or put God back "into" time, which seems to conflict with physics.

If Jehovah organized this universe AND was the temporal person Jesus, it seems to me he would have to be able to be both in and outside of time as he desired, or was expedient. Maybe that is the true meaning of "time AND eternity". ???

Edited October 3, 2011 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

One idea that I feel I learned is that WHAT is God doesn't change. That is . . . God is love, justice, mercy, perfectly clean, creates, etc etc etc. You cannot remove godliness and still have God. And godliness is unchanging, eternal, always there, always accessible . . . for those who will, who are willing to become Gods (that is, willing to become One with other beings, just, clean, loving, merciful, etc etc etc).

The only problem I have with this is that it comes awfully close to doctrines which affirm God's "essence" or "nature" or "substance" or "being" as eternal and unchangeable; I think that is problematic because it is basically Platonic philosophy- the belief in eternal "Forms" and is a pagan Greek notion and is unbiblical.

Other than that, it's a great idea!

[mfbukowski]

What was Jesus before he had a Heavenly Father?

That makes as much sense as asking what time was before there was time.

What were things like "before" eternity?

I've got an idea- why don't you tell us what God was doing floating around alone- for how long?- before he decided to create the world- and why did he in the first place? Did he get lonely?

We answer questions you guys don't even ask!

[altersteve]

What was Jesus before he had a Heavenly Father?

Jesus always had a Heavenly Father, and so did we.

[wenglund]

God Omniscient

We believe that before being born into mortality, Christ was a spirit personage, and had not yet experienced mortality, and thus didn't fully know, and lacked omniscience about, what it was like to be mortal, but he needed to become flesh so that he could know temptation and succor those who are tempted (Hebrews 2--particularly verse 18), and to learn obedience from his suffering (Hebrews 5:8).

Likewise, he, as a spirit, had yet to experience what it was like to be a resurrected personage like his Father, and thus didn't fully know, and lacked omniscience about glorified perfected beings until after he had, himself, conquered death and risen therefrom.

Furthermore, we believe that during mortality, Christ wasn't omniscient, having not received a fulness at first, but grew from grace to grace (DC 93:12-13; John 1:16) like a tender plant (Isaiah 53:2), and "increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man" (Luke 2:52), having been taught by and ministered unto by God. (Ps 91:11-12; Mt 4:6; Mk 1:13; Lk4:11)

He was not yet glorified or completely enlightened (John 7:39) but became so through the resurrection. (John 12:23) Even still, there were things that the Father knew that the Son did not. (Matthew 24:36)

We believe that Christ will, if he hasn't already, become God omniscient, "full of grace and truth" (Joh 1:14-15), once he receives all things from his father (Mt 11:27; Jn 3:35; 6:37.39; 13:3), "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell." (Colossians 1:19)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited October 3, 2011 by wenglund

[Cobalt-70]

I wish to use the words of Joseph Smith to declare that in order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, and how he came to be God; for I am going to tell you how he came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that Jesus Christ was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.

Am I suggesting that Jesus Christ was in no way "God" from all eternities? No. I believe in some respects he was, while in other respects he wasn't.

There are two original Mormon theologies, the first introduced by Joseph Smith and the second introduced by Brigham Young, and under both, you can't really say that Jesus was always our God:

1. Joseph Smith's theology said that there is no difference in kind between the Father, the Son, and the rest of us, but that all differences are a matter of degree. All premortal spirits (Smith called them intelligences) were coeternal with the Father, and were never born or created. At some point in the distant past, the Father achieved an advanced state of intelligence and a physical body. He was surrounded, however, by a host of lesser intelligences and he set out to raise them all to a higher level. To do this, he "organized" them into a population of his children. There were many great and noble intelligences, and these he made his rulers. The greatest of these was Jesus, who volunteered to be the Savior. God then organized an earth where these intelligences could receive physical bodies. So in this theology, "god" is a relative term. God is our god because he is far more advanced than we are, and he took it upon himself to exalt us lesser intelligences. Jesus is also our God because he was the most advanced among the group of intelligences that the Father organized.

2. Brigham Young's theology is that, unlike in Smith's theology, spirits are indeed born. Spirits were physically born from the sexual union between a god and goddess (in Young's view Michael/Adam and his wife Eve, but in the early 20th century this changed to Elohim and his wife the Heavenly Mother), and created from some eternal spirit "element" (which Young identified as the "intelligence"). Jesus was also literally born in this way, and thus was not coeternal with the Father except that the spirit elements from which he was created were co-eternal with the spirit "elements" from which the Father was created. In this view, as with that of Smith, the idea of "god" is a relative term. The Father is our God because he physically impregnated our Heavenly Mother. The Son is also our God, however, because he was the oldest son, and as the Savior, he adopts and saves righteous Mormons who accept his Gospel. In the early 20th century, Jesus also became Jehovah, one of the council of three Mormon creator gods, and also the God of the Old Testament. But in this view, which now represents something close to the mainstream Mormon doctrine, Jesus was not always God. In fact, he was not always a spirit, and certainly not co-eternal with the Father in the classical Christian sense, or in the sense that Joseph Smith's theology still maintained.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Cobalt-70

[wenglund]

God Omnipotent

As indicated previously, Christ was God for all eternity in the sense that he was a member of the Godhead, the Right Hand of God.

However, as the Right Hand, he was not, in a sense, the Most High God. The Father was the Son's God and Lord over the Son. (Mt 22:42-46; Ps 110:1) Thus the Son was not omnipotent except by derivation from the Father.

Hierarchically, and in terms of omnipotence, the Father was greater than the Son (Jn 14:28), and the Son worshiped the Father (Joh 4:23) and was subject to the Father (Mosiah 15:2; DC 93:4-5; 1Co 15:24). The Prince (Isa 9:6) was subordinate to the Eternal King (1Ti 1:17). The Son was sent to earth by the Father (1Joh 4:14), and the Son came not in his own name (the term "name" signifies reputation, power, authority, and dominions), but in the name of the Father. (Ps 118:26; Mt 21:3,5,9; 23:39; Mk 11:9; Lk 13:35; 19:38; Jn Joh 5:43; 10:25; 12:13; 17:6,26; Rev 3:5). The word the Son delivered was not his own word, but the Father's (Jn 14:24; 17:8 ), and the Son did not his own will, but acted in accordance with the will of the Father (Mt 7:2; 26:36, 39, 42; Joh 5:30; 6:39; 8:16,18), and in obedience to the commandment of the Father. (Jn 10:18; 15:10). The Son was about his Father's business (Lk 2:49), drank the cup given to him by the Father (Joh 18:11), and finished the work that the Father gave him to do. (Jn 4:36; 17:4).

In short, Christ could do nothing of himself, but he received his power from his Father (Mt 9:8; 28:18; Eph 1:20)), was witnessed to by the Father (Jn 5:32,37; 8:17), honoureth not himself but was honored of the Father (Jn 8:54), and was raised up, taught by, nurtured, sanctified, anointed, and exalted by him, with power and glory. (Mt 9:8; 11:27; 28:18; Lk 1:69; Joh 5:19; 6:37; 8:28,38,40; 12:28; 15:15; 17:22; Eph 1:20-21)

Christ received all things from his Father (ibid). The Saviour said, "I am the true vine, and my Father the Husbandman." (Joh 15:1)

It was not until after his mortal life, when Christ was glorified, resurrected, and attained "life in himself" (Jn 5:26), having been crowned "King of kings" (1 Tim 6:16; Rev 17:14; 19:16), and made "Lord of lords" (Ibid., see also Act 2:36), the Lord of all (Ac 10:36), that he thereby became a "Most High God"(Mk 5:7; Act 16:17), a "God of gods"(Josh 22:22; Ps 136:2; Dan 2:47).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited October 3, 2011 by wenglund