Calm Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 No, one flesh means that each others actions would have implications on the other. If the husband is a fornicator the wife is an adulteress.?Are you saying that if one spouse sins the other is counted as if they have as well even if they are unaware of the sin?
Calm Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 nor is there male and female?Are you suggesting there is no gender in heaven?
altersteve Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) I think marriage is a wonderful thing and it was great of God to give us partners. Someone we could share our life with and happiness with. God understands our loneliness.. I'm married.. I don't forbid it.. I just don't believe it to be something that will exist in heaven under the same concept as you do...And that's merely your own interpretation. It is your interpretation of the Bible that we disagree with, not the Bible itself. That's why citing a few verses and then essentially saying nothing more than "No, you're wrong" is pathetic, and absolutely no way to have a proper discussion about theology. You never tell us why we're wrong, you simply give us your faulty, nonsensical interpretation of a Bible verse taken completely out of context.Once again, all you have is the Bible. We have much more than that, so we know what the Bible's authors really meant, and we have modern revelation from God to prove it. Since you can't make that claim for yourself, you're stuck merely interpreting what the Bible says on your own using your best judgment.To answer your question, though, about whether we will be lonely in heaven without a spouse, that completely misses the point. Marriage is important because it is an eternal principle that is ordained by God for a glorious purpose: to increase our own happiness (which is all God wants) and to help bring forth His work, which also brings about our happiness even more, and in turn glorifies our Heavenly Father. Loneliness has nothing to do with it. Edited September 28, 2011 by altersteve
Jesterss Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 And that's merely your own interpretation. It is your interpretation of the Bible that we disagree with, not the Bible itself. That's why citing a few verses and then essentially saying nothing more than "No, you're wrong" is pathetic, and absolutely no way to have a proper discussion about theology. You never tell us why we're wrong, you simply give us your faulty, nonsensical interpretation of a Bible verse taken completely out of context.Have I ever just said No, you're wrong without explaining? No.. now you're just reaching for a reason to be upset.. you call it nonsensical but yet you never break it down to prove that it's nonsensical other than the fact that you have what you believe extra biblical support that disagrees with my POV... To me, you take the biblical verses out of context.. Of course we are going to have differing opinions, that's the point of discussions.. you just seem upset at the idea that someone doesn't cater to your opinion.. Once again, all you have is the Bible. We have much more than that, so we know what the Bible's authors really meant, and we have modern revelation from God to prove it. Since you can't make that claim for yourself, you're stuck merely interpreting what the Bible says on your own using your best judgment.No, you have what you believe is the bible's interpretations are. Just as those who don't believe in the bible say they have science to refute the bible. It's their belief.. Just as it's ours to know that God exists.. and I happen to believe I make great judgements.. again, my personal belief.. To answer your question, though, about whether we will be lonely in heaven without a spouse, that completely misses the point. Marriage is important because it is an eternal principle that is ordained by God for a glorious purpose: to increase our own happiness (which is all God wants) and to help bring forth His work, which also brings about our happiness even more, and in turn glorifies our Heavenly Father. Loneliness has nothing to do with it.Yes it does. It has everything to do with it. That was the reason woman was created in the first place. Was it not? So I'm not missing the point at all.. You are refusing to get my point and justify it by saying I'm missing some other tangential point.. I get it, you believe its eternal, I believe its earthly... that much is obvious.. the point is though, God created woman for man not to be lonely..now, on that thought, for those disciples or apostles who may not have been married, do you think they will be lonely in heaven without a wife? or you yourself, if you die tomorrow (assuming you aren't married), would you be lonely in heaven without a wife?
Jesterss Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Are you saying that if one spouse sins the other is counted as if they have as well even if they are unaware of the sin?yes, just as one can be sanctified by their spouse... Edited September 28, 2011 by Jesterss
Jesterss Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 Are you suggesting there is no gender in heaven?possibly.. I don't have an answer for that other than what the bible says.. the text you quoted from me would suggest so..
Zakuska Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Yes it does. It has everything to do with it. That was the reason woman was created in the first place. Was it not? So I'm not missing the point at all.. You are refusing to get my point and justify it by saying I'm missing some other tangential point.. I get it, you believe its eternal, I believe its earthly... that much is obvious.. the point is though, God created woman for man not to be lonely..now, on that thought, for those disciples or apostles who may not have been married, do you think they will be lonely in heaven without a wife? or you yourself, if you die tomorrow (assuming you aren't married), would you be lonely in heaven without a wife?Your previous point underminds your own question.If God created a woman for the man so he wouldn't be lonely... and you seem to be intimating that the single man/woman cant be lonely in heaven because they have God, Then what is the purpose of the woman in the first place?If God would make the man unlonely, There would be no reason to create the woman because the Man would have God all for himself. Edited September 29, 2011 by Zakuska
altersteve Posted September 29, 2011 Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Have I ever just said No, you're wrong without explaining? No.. now you're just reaching for a reason to be upset.. you call it nonsensical but yet you never break it down to prove that it's nonsensical other than the fact that you have what you believe extra biblical support that disagrees with my POV... To me, you take the biblical verses out of context.. Of course we are going to have differing opinions, that's the point of discussions.. you just seem upset at the idea that someone doesn't cater to your opinion..You have said, "No, you're wrong," without explaining. I say something about a verse, and you say something along the lines of, "No, it actually means this." And you provide no explanation as to why that's what it means, other than your own reading of it. I provide explanations as to why it means what I think it means by explaining that modern revelation has adequately clarified the meaning of the text. You do that all the time and it just gets people frustrated with you.No, you have what you believe is the bible's interpretations are. Just as those who don't believe in the bible say they have science to refute the bible. It's their belief.. Just as it's ours to know that God exists.. and I happen to believe I make great judgements.. again, my personal belief..No. I know it.Yes it does. It has everything to do with it. That was the reason woman was created in the first place. Was it not? So I'm not missing the point at all.. You are refusing to get my point and justify it by saying I'm missing some other tangential point.. I get it, you believe its eternal, I believe its earthly... that much is obvious.. the point is though, God created woman for man not to be lonely..No He didn't. The daughters of God are here on this earth for a purpose far greater than anything that any of us men could ever imagine, not to simply keep men company. That idea is sick and wrong.now, on that thought, for those disciples or apostles who may not have been married, do you think they will be lonely in heaven without a wife? or you yourself, if you die tomorrow (assuming you aren't married), would you be lonely in heaven without a wife?Apparently you aren't familiar with the LDS view about this. If you die without being married, and you never had the chance to marry, you will have the chance to do so in the next life. So if I die tomorrow, I am certain that I will be given the chance to marry, since I have not had the chance to do so yet. However, I don't think "lonely" is the right word for those who had the chance to marry in the temple but decided against it. "Regret" is nearer the mark.yes, just as one can be sanctified by their spouse...So you're saying that if a man cheats on his wife, murders somebody, or commits the unpardonable sin, then she also guilty of it? Are you serious? Edited September 29, 2011 by altersteve
Jesterss Posted September 29, 2011 Posted September 29, 2011 Your previous point underminds your own question.If God created a woman for the man so he wouldn't be lonely... and you seem to be intimating that the single man/woman cant be lonely in heaven because they have God, Then what is the purpose of the woman in the first place?If God would make the man unlonely, There would be no reason to create the woman because the Man would have God all for himself.We aren't with God here on earth, we are seeking to understand him and know him, but we aren't with him physically.. there is a difference.. it undermines nothing..
Jesterss Posted September 29, 2011 Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) You have said, "No, you're wrong," without explaining. I say something about a verse, and you say something along the lines of, "No, it actually means this." And you provide no explanation as to why that's what it means, other than your own reading of it. I provide explanations as to why it means what I think it means by explaining that modern revelation has adequately clarified the meaning of the text. You do that all the time and it just gets people frustrated with you.These last 2 pages you haven't even made a reference to anything.. I have.. yet I'm the one without unsupporting text? If we look back through this conversation, you have told me I'm wrong on multiple occassions.. those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks..No. I know it.Philosophically you cannot know... You can only claim to know what you believe, that does not make your belief any more right than anyone elses, but to yourself..No He didn't. The daughters of God are here on this earth for a purpose far greater than anything that any of us men could ever imagine, not to simply keep men company. That idea is sick and wrong.I'm not saying men are above women when I said what I said.. That I never laid claim to and I won't. But there are many things in the OT that we would look down upon in today's society... To say that woman wasn't created due to man's (Adam's) loneliness, would claim that you disagree with the bible.. do you?Apparently you aren't familiar with the LDS view about this. If you die without being married, and you never had the chance to marry, you will have the chance to do so in the next life. So if I die tomorrow, I am certain that I will be given the chance to marry, since I have not had the chance to do so yet. However, I don't think "lonely" is the right word for those who had the chance to marry in the temple but decided against it. "Regret" is nearer the mark.No I'm not familiar with everything or I would already know every one of your responses.. However, if you did die tomorrow and received this chance to marry, what life would that be in that you got married? what location? and would there be temples in this location?So you're saying that if a man cheats on his wife, murders somebody, or commits the unpardonable sin, then she also guilty of it? Are you serious?I am serious... Do you not agree that if you sleep with another man's wife, you have caused her husband to also be an adulterer?1 corinthians 615 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b]17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]Do you also not agree that if your wife were an unbeliever, but you were, that she would be sanctified through you? Edited September 29, 2011 by Jesterss
volgadon Posted September 29, 2011 Posted September 29, 2011 I am serious... Do you not agree that if you sleep with another man's wife, you have caused her husband to also be an adulterer?Cuckold, yes, adulterer, no.
Zakuska Posted September 29, 2011 Posted September 29, 2011 We aren't with God here on earth, we are seeking to understand him and know him, but we aren't with him physically.. there is a difference.. it undermines nothing..God was in the Garden with both Adam and Eve on the earth so It most certianly does undermine your question.Genesis 3:88 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.If They hadn't eaten the fruit the Human race would still be in the Garden to this very day with God.
altersteve Posted September 29, 2011 Posted September 29, 2011 These last 2 pages you haven't even made a reference to anything.. I have.. yet I'm the one without unsupporting text? If we look back through this conversation, you have told me I'm wrong on multiple occassions.. those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks..I'm saying that you simply say I'm wrong without really telling me why I'm wrong. Please consider doing this in future discussions.Philosophically you cannot know... You can only claim to know what you believe, that does not make your belief any more right than anyone elses, but to yourself..No, I do know it, without a doubt in my mind. I know the Book of Mormon is true, I know the Bible is true, and I know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. I know that eternal marriage is a true doctrine. And Most importantly, I know that Jesus Christ is true.I'm not saying men are above women when I said what I said.. That I never laid claim to and I won't. But there are many things in the OT that we would look down upon in today's society... To say that woman wasn't created due to man's (Adam's) loneliness, would claim that you disagree with the bible.. do you?As I said, I don't disagree with the Bible, only your interpretation of it.No I'm not familiar with everything or I would already know every one of your responses.. However, if you did die tomorrow and received this chance to marry, what life would that be in that you got married? what location? and would there be temples in this location?It would be by proxy in a temple here while I would be in the spirit world.I am serious... Do you not agree that if you sleep with another man's wife, you have caused her husband to also be an adulterer?No, I do not agree with this at all. A woman sleeping with another man does not make her husband an adulterer. I believe that men are punished for, and are therefore guilty of, their own sins, not anyone else's. Not Adam's and not their spouse's (Article of Faith #2).Do you also not agree that if your wife were an unbeliever, but you were, that she would be sanctified through you?LDS believe that it is the Holy Ghost who sanctifies, and that He does so directly, not through anyone.
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