Gold Plates From Mesoamerica

[Zakuska]

Interesting Article from the Deseret News while I was on my haitus... Not sure if its been discussed. I couldn't find anything.

"Fascinating article about how Harvard’s Peobody Museum has a number of plates of gold with extensive images and Mayan hieroglyphics found by archeologist Edward Herbert Thompson in Chichén Itzá about a hundred years ago: Ancient gold plates in Mesoamerica."

Thompson found carved jade, tools, gold ornaments, copper axes, other obscure metal items and human remains. Many people know about some of these artifacts, but few know about the gold plates he found. Many of them are decorated with images of warfare and sacrifice, showing bearded Toltecs (Simon Martin and Nikolai Grube, “Chronicle of the Maya Kings and Queens,” London, Thames & Hudson, 2000, p. 229).

Some have Mayan hieroglyphics. The gold came from as far away as Panama, and it is possible that it was brought to Chichen as blank plates to be engraved there (Lynn V. Foster, “Handbook to Life in the Ancient Maya World,” New York: Oxford University Press, 2005, p. 322). They date to the ninth century A.D. (Linda Schele and Peter Matthews, “The Code of Kings,” New York: Simon & Schuster, 1998, p. 359).

These gold plates are quite remarkable. The detail is astounding, with intricate designs. Upon close inspection, it appears that very precise metal tools would be necessary to do such work. The gold itself is very thin, but quite strong and stiff.

Scholars refer to them as disks and believe they are pictured carried by the Toltecs on the murals of the Temple of the Jaguar. They were important symbols of authority and represented portals into the next world, revelation and prophecy (Ibid., pp. 222-223). Other gold objects include small, rectangular sheets, some flat and some curved. Most of these are plain, but some have designs carved into them.

I like this caution from the Article though...

Lund also claims that Moroni’s use of gold plates for recordkeeping marks him as a Mesoamerican scribe (Ibid., p. 92). This is an interesting idea, but it has no support; only two of the disks at the Peabody have any glyphs. For the most part, these were symbolic items, not written records. The only known writings from Mesoamerica were carved in stone or written on perishable media like paper codices, skins or painted plaster.

At times, intriguing but often spurious evidence is used by well-intentioned apologists in support of the Book of Mormon. These claims are easily refuted by critics and do not improve our standing in mainstream archaeology. Solid and sound scholarship is essential here.

The current scholarly consensus is that no known Mesoamerican culture used gold as a medium for writing. It is certainly not out of the question that metal plates may have been used for sacred or special records by some indigenous peoples. From time to time, such stories are circulated within the LDS community, but none are accepted as authentic by mainstream archaeologists.

I liked these from the comments... Now I know where some of the recent threads here have come from:

@crunchem Coe is not the only one to have made such a statement. The Smithsonian has affirmed it, and so has Johan Normark, one of the greatest archeologists in recent years to study Mesoamerica. I live among the Maya in southern Mexico, and have visited the ruins on many different occasions. I have found absolutely NO connection with the Old World. The only ones to argue in favor of these dubious links are those from the Maxwell Institute, and apologists such as Daniel Peterson, who equates the "horse" with a "tapir." The Book of Mormon is a fantastic 19th Century epic tale, representing theological arguments from Joe Smith's day, but I have no doubt in my mind that it is definitively NOT historical.

@elchupacabras

"The only ones to argue in favor of these dubious links are those from the Maxwell Institute, and apologists such as Daniel Peterson, who equates the "horse" with a "tapir." "

It was actually Michael D. Coe, a "prominent Mesoamerican archaeologist and Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at Yale University", whom you mentioned in your first post who originally equated "horse" with "tapir".

Edited September 2, 2011 by Zakuska

[ebeddoulos]

Does anyone know if "Michael D. Coe, a 'prominent Mesoamerican archaeologist and Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at Yale University', was the one to "originally equated 'horse' with 'tapir'"?

That would be most entertaining, if true.

[Brant Gardner]

Does anyone know if "Michael D. Coe, a 'prominent Mesoamerican archaeologist and Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at Yale University', was the one to "originally equated 'horse' with 'tapir'"?

No, he did not. I don't remember anyone making that suggestion before Sorenson, who used that as one of the possibilities of what might have received a different culture's label.

[Brant Gardner]

"Fascinating article about how Harvard’s Peobody Museum has a number of plates of gold with extensive images and Mayan hieroglyphics found by archeologist Edward Herbert Thompson in Chichén Itzá about a hundred years ago: Ancient gold plates in Mesoamerica."

Chichen is at least 500 years after the close of the Book of Mormon, and there are currently no known gold objects from Book of Mormon times. So, this is interesting in telling us that they had no prohibition for using that medium when they had it, but it doesn't tell us anything directly related to the Book of Mormon.

[Zakuska]

Chichen is at least 500 years after the close of the Book of Mormon, and there are currently no known gold objects from Book of Mormon times. So, this is interesting in telling us that they had no prohibition for using that medium when they had it, but it doesn't tell us anything directly related to the Book of Mormon.

Yeah I read that in the Article, and I agree completley with that.

One tantilizing note, Gold and Metal tend to get recycled so this begs some questions.

[Calm]

Does anyone know if "Michael D. Coe, a 'prominent Mesoamerican archaeologist and Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at Yale University', was the one to "originally equated 'horse' with 'tapir'"?

Do you mean for the Book of Mormon or in the actual language?

[ebeddoulos]

Do you mean for the Book of Mormon or in the actual language?

You lost me. Apparently there are dimensions in my question of which I am unaware. I was just wondering if Michael Coe actually equated horse with the taper, for whatever purpose. Tell me whatever you know.