Liberalism And Religious Intolerance

[Analytics]

I don't particularly care for the question that was asked in the original Pew poll, and I take issue with what’s been inferred about the mindset of the 30% of Democrats who said that they’d be less likely to support a Mormon.

In order to make my point most clearly, I made a poll of my own in the main forum. With that poll and the comments I’ve left there, I’ve said what I have to say and will try to bow out of this conversation.

I hope you will do you patriotic duty and go to that thread and vote.

[thesometimesaint]

Jeff K.:

The practice common among establishment centrists of ritualistically denigrating progressives in order to win over imaginary swing voters and David Brooks. Sometimes misinterpreted as a boneheaded political mistake, it's actually a sign of deep and unselfish commitment to pleasing owners and professionals even at the cost of losing elections.

[ldsfaqs]

Okay, I will speak then, and try to keep it clean.

It is a fallacy that Conservatives, namely the Evangelical ones who tend to be anti-mormon are the "main" proponents of anti-mormonism in politics. It's actually liberals.

Why, because while Conservatives may have their "fringe" group of primarily Evangelical anti-mormons; however, Liberalism's entire ideology is based on being anti-religious and specifically Atheistic.

Atheists, which are generally liberal, have a particular bone to pick with Religion, and Mormonism falls right into it.

Yes, there are Conservative Atheists and Conservative Gays, etc., but these people tend to be more tolerant of people with differences, and Conservatism and Conservative ideology is based on.

Liberalism is strong in the East and West Coasts, and in the South. These places are where we often get most anti-mormonism, thus the anti-mormonism is still in that sense also coming much more from liberals than conservatives.

Yes, it drives me nuts that there are Conservative anti-mormons, but it's a small number fortunately. It also drives me nuts that there are liberal mormons, people who shouldn't be so deceived, but fortunately also a smaller number of such in the Church. In conclusion, if anything anti-mormonism from either side is about "equal". However, in my view it comes a fair amount more from the left rather than the right. The right however might be more "vocal" and organized about it, hence why to liberals it might seem there are more anti-mormons in Conservatism. But in actual numbers, I don't think so at all.

[frankenstein]

what/who is a liberal?

Mormons and Catholic were the people who got pray banned at school games in Texas see Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe

what is a liberal mormon is it someone who drinks caffenated sodas? or does not require their child to wear sunday cloths all day long? or lets their kids play out side on Sunday?

[california boy]

Can liberals be religious and not be put in the back of the liberal bus?

How does one define liberalism (not the classical economic liberalism) and why is the percpetion of liberalism being against religion so prevalent that even a liberal leader has to chastise his party?

This is a pretty insulting comment. What shred of evidence do you have that being liberal means you are not religious? I would submit that many are liberals BECAUSE of their religious beliefs. You know, the strange concept of taking care of the poor and widows. (See New Testament teachings promoted by Christ). I could certainly make a stronger case for conservatives being decidedly LESS religious then liberals. Yelling and screaming that God is on your side does not make one religious. Just ask the Pharisees.

[california boy]

Okay, I will speak then, and try to keep it clean.

It is a fallacy that Conservatives, namely the Evangelical ones who tend to be anti-mormon are the "main" proponents of anti-mormonism in politics. It's actually liberals.

Why, because while Conservatives may have their "fringe" group of primarily Evangelical anti-mormons; however, Liberalism's entire ideology is based on being anti-religious and specifically Atheistic.

Atheists, which are generally liberal, have a particular bone to pick with Religion, and Mormonism falls right into it.

Yes, there are Conservative Atheists and Conservative Gays, etc., but these people tend to be more tolerant of people with differences, and Conservatism and Conservative ideology is based on.

Liberalism is strong in the East and West Coasts, and in the South. These places are where we often get most anti-mormonism, thus the anti-mormonism is still in that sense also coming much more from liberals than conservatives.

Yes, it drives me nuts that there are Conservative anti-mormons, but it's a small number fortunately. It also drives me nuts that there are liberal mormons, people who shouldn't be so deceived, but fortunately also a smaller number of such in the Church. In conclusion, if anything anti-mormonism from either side is about "equal". However, in my view it comes a fair amount more from the left rather than the right. The right however might be more "vocal" and organized about it, hence why to liberals it might seem there are more anti-mormons in Conservatism. But in actual numbers, I don't think so at all.

Where are you getting these distorted views. The west coast is one of the strongest areas in the WORLD for Mormons. There are more Mormons in California than Utah. The California mission has a history of being one of the top baptising missions in the world. In the county that I am from the Mormon church is the SECOND largest religion. And in California as a whole, Mormonism is the THIRD largest religion.

The anti Mormon feelings in California didn't exist for the most part prior to prop 8. It is the church itself that has caused the ill feelings that many have in California for the church.

[Libs]

The anti Mormon feelings in California didn't exist for the most part prior to prop 8. It is the church itself that has caused the ill feelings that many have in California for the church.

This is true, in my experience. LDS were not really on the radar until Prop 8. They were mostly ignored (live and let live), except by a few hardcore anti-Mormon groups.

[Jeff K.]

Jeff K., on 17 August 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

Can liberals be religious and not be put in the back of the liberal bus?

How does one define liberalism (not the classical economic liberalism) and why is the percpetion of liberalism being against religion so prevalent that even a liberal leader has to chastise his party?

This is a pretty insulting comment. What shred of evidence do you have that being liberal means you are not religious? I would submit that many are liberals BECAUSE of their religious beliefs. You know, the strange concept of taking care of the poor and widows. (See New Testament teachings promoted by Christ). I could certainly make a stronger case for conservatives being decidedly LESS religious then liberals. Yelling and screaming that God is on your side does not make one religious. Just ask the Pharisees.

It is accurate. What evidence do I have? I look at liberal TV. The shows make fun of religion and religious people (or are you telling us entertainment television isn't liberal?). I look at liberal entertainers like Maher, liberal professors and liberal leaders of various stripes. With very few exceptions there appears to be a disdain. Are you insulted by their attitudes?

The only one yelling and screaming here seems to be you. I suggest you calm down.

[Jeff K.]

ldsfaqs, on 17 August 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:

Okay, I will speak then, and try to keep it clean.

It is a fallacy that Conservatives, namely the Evangelical ones who tend to be anti-mormon are the "main" proponents of anti-mormonism in politics. It's actually liberals.

Why, because while Conservatives may have their "fringe" group of primarily Evangelical anti-mormons; however, Liberalism's entire ideology is based on being anti-religious and specifically Atheistic.

Atheists, which are generally liberal, have a particular bone to pick with Religion, and Mormonism falls right into it.

Yes, there are Conservative Atheists and Conservative Gays, etc., but these people tend to be more tolerant of people with differences, and Conservatism and Conservative ideology is based on.

Liberalism is strong in the East and West Coasts, and in the South. These places are where we often get most anti-mormonism, thus the anti-mormonism is still in that sense also coming much more from liberals than conservatives.

Yes, it drives me nuts that there are Conservative anti-mormons, but it's a small number fortunately. It also drives me nuts that there are liberal mormons, people who shouldn't be so deceived, but fortunately also a smaller number of such in the Church. In conclusion, if anything anti-mormonism from either side is about "equal". However, in my view it comes a fair amount more from the left rather than the right. The right however might be more "vocal" and organized about it, hence why to liberals it might seem there are more anti-mormons in Conservatism. But in actual numbers, I don't think so at all.

Where are you getting these distorted views. The west coast is one of the strongest areas in the WORLD for Mormons. There are more Mormons in California than Utah. The California mission has a history of being one of the top baptising missions in the world. In the county that I am from the Mormon church is the SECOND largest religion. And in California as a whole, Mormonism is the THIRD largest religion.

The anti Mormon feelings in California didn't exist for the most part prior to prop 8. It is the church itself that has caused the ill feelings that many have in California for the church.

Yes an LDS stronghold I am sure. A bit about math, California is a large state, so having a large number of members of the church is irrelavant unless you consider the size of the state. As to a high baptizing mission, yes and no, with a whole can of worms attached that belong to another thread. California, even though significant parts of it were settled and developed by Mormons, has not shown much in the way of being a "Mormon state". LDS make up 2% of the population of CA.

The anti Mormon feeling did exist, it was a disdained tolerance, but the minute Mormons asserted their belief in family, that anti Mormon feeling simply was chosen as the cause du jour. Mormons are in essence a small group in California and easier to attack than say the African Community or the Catholic. What does it say about the community that is attacking them other than cowardice and bullying? Clearly it defines what kind of group they are.

[thesometimesaint]

Jeff K.:

TV is not liberal it is corporate. Only about a half a dozen individuals control the vast majority of what you see on The Tube. GE the largest arms producer in the world is half owner of NBC/MSNBC. NEWS Corp(run by the Murdocks) owns all of the FOX channels. The list goes on. If you are interested just look under media consolidation for more information.

http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart/main?gclid=CMmPmtqZ2aoCFeoaQgodv2gs7w

[frankenstein]

also check out

Conspiracy Theory Rock by Robert Smigel

[thesometimesaint]

frankenstein:

[california boy]

Yes an LDS stronghold I am sure. A bit about math, California is a large state, so having a large number of members of the church is irrelavant unless you consider the size of the state. As to a high baptizing mission, yes and no, with a whole can of worms attached that belong to another thread. California, even though significant parts of it were settled and developed by Mormons, has not shown much in the way of being a "Mormon state". LDS make up 2% of the population of CA.

The anti Mormon feeling did exist, it was a disdained tolerance, but the minute Mormons asserted their belief in family, that anti Mormon feeling simply was chosen as the cause du jour. Mormons are in essence a small group in California and easier to attack than say the African Community or the Catholic. What does it say about the community that is attacking them other than cowardice and bullying? Clearly it defines what kind of group they are.

Like I said, Mormonism is the third largest religion in California. I have lived there all my life and I never felt any anti-Mormon feelings in the state until Prop 8. The only anti-Mormon feelings came from the local Presbyterian church pastor who loved to show "The Godmaker". Hard calling him a liberal. Kids in our ward held the majority of leadership positions in their high school. We had lots of non Mormons attend a lot of the youth activities. Prior to prop 8, I would have said that the church had a very good image in California as being good citizens good neighbors, and strong families. Now the church is thought of as being anti gay and the whole past history of denying blacks from holding the priesthood has reared up its head again over 30 years later. It will take a long time for the church to be thought of in a good way again by those that fight and believe in equality. But it is the churches own doing. It wasn't the churches asserted belief in family that has turned so many against the church. It is that many believe the church is fighting against equality. Big difference. And make no mistake, prop 8 became the Mormon proposition by their involvement unequaled by any other group. So let't not pretend it is because they are an easy target. They became the target themselves.

If you have any proof to back up your statement that prejudice against the church is more pronounced in the west coast, please share it with us. I would love to hear how the west coast as you asserted has been more antiMormon than say, the south. This is just such a false statement with absolutely no basis for fact. It is just your false view of what a liberal is suppose to be.

[Minos]

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This topic has been closed by a moderator.

Reason: political and personal

Kind regards,

Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board Staff