etana Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 This is inspired by Zakuska's recent thread on God creating the Universe and the thought provoking responses there.Isaiah gives the following in 45:7Isaiah 45:7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.יֹוצֵ֥ר אֹור֙ וּבֹורֵ֣א חֹ֔שֶׁךְ עֹשֶׂ֥ה שָׁלֹ֖ום וּבֹ֣ורֵא רָ֑ע אֲנִ֥י יְהוָ֖ה עֹשֶׂ֥ה כָל־אֵֽלֶּה׃ סThere are three different verbs at play here that could be correctly translated into English as "create". "Yotser )Or" "Create Light", is the first and is usually translated as "form" with the connotation of working with preexisting material--often clay. The Strong's reference is 3335 if anyone cares to look it up. This fits pretty well with general LDS belief."'Borei' Hoshekh", "Create Darkness" is the second. Borei (Strong's 1254) implies creation by removing substance implying that space was made "inside" of something preexisting. Qaballists sometimes explain this by God contracting so that there is room for His creation. "Borei" is also used with "Ra(a" (evil, sometimes a synonym for Choshekh in both languages) which is an interesting discussion all on it's own.The third, "(osheh Shalom" "Create Peace" and "(osheh Kol-Eleh" "Create all these" imply that they are made by God "doing" them.Any thoughts (or critiques on my half-baked transliteration)?
Nenahnezad Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 I suggest you use the english verbs spoken by The Creator in the last days:"And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law—"The creation is ongoing. Just like your own.
Zakuska Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 If you really think about it. If matter is Eternal. Then God literaly did "create nothing".
Questing Beast Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 As all existence originates from "God" and is therefore an aspect of "God", the concepts of "nothing" and "infinite creation" are coexistent. There really is a "state" where "nothing" exists. But "nothing" is as much "God" as fecund, infinite imagination manifesting as empirical reality....
HiJolly Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 If you really think about it. If matter is Eternal. Then God literaly did "create nothing".If 'eternal' is God's name, then matter is eternal even if He *did* create it. BTW, I really like the Qabalistic view of creation. EIN or AIN is 'nothing' -- LOL! HiJolly
Ahab Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 This is inspired by Zakuska's recent thread on God creating the Universe and the thought provoking responses there.Isaiah gives the following in 45:7There are three different verbs at play here that could be correctly translated into English as "create". "Yotser )Or" "Create Light", is the first and is usually translated as "form" with the connotation of working with preexisting material--often clay. The Strong's reference is 3335 if anyone cares to look it up. This fits pretty well with general LDS belief."'Borei' Hoshekh", "Create Darkness" is the second. Borei (Strong's 1254) implies creation by removing substance implying that space was made "inside" of something preexisting. Qaballists sometimes explain this by God contracting so that there is room for His creation. "Borei" is also used with "Ra(a" (evil, sometimes a synonym for Choshekh in both languages) which is an interesting discussion all on it's own.The third, "(osheh Shalom" "Create Peace" and "(osheh Kol-Eleh" "Create all these" imply that they are made by God "doing" them.Any thoughts (or critiques on my half-baked transliteration)?Interesting. So you're saying that instead of creating this Earth in a place in space that existed with nothing in it which God thought would be a good place for this Earth, he actually created the empty space as well by moving whatever was here out of the way to make a place for the Earth?I wonder where he put all fhe stuff that was here when he made that space an empty space? Do you see it out there anywhere?
etana Posted August 18, 2011 Author Posted August 18, 2011 Interesting. So you're saying that instead of creating this Earth in a place in space that existed with nothing in it which God thought would be a good place for this Earth, he actually created the empty space as well by moving whatever was here out of the way to make a place for the Earth?I wonder where he put all fhe stuff that was here when he made that space an empty space? Do you see it out there anywhere?maybe that's what dark matter is
etana Posted August 18, 2011 Author Posted August 18, 2011 As all existence originates from "God" and is therefore an aspect of "God", the concepts of "nothing" and "infinite creation" are coexistent. There really is a "state" where "nothing" exists. But "nothing" is as much "God" as fecund, infinite imagination manifesting as empirical reality....Yes. and it cannot exist in Chaos which is smooth and full of "something" (as am I occasionally); only by the principles of "Law" or "Organisation" can the potential for "nothing" be assigned. So, where darkness is an absence of the infinite light, can evil be seen as an absence of the infinite God?
jo1952 Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 Yes. and it cannot exist in Chaos which is smooth and full of "something" (as am I occasionally); only by the principles of "Law" or "Organisation" can the potential for "nothing" be assigned. So, where darkness is an absence of the infinite light, can evil be seen as an absence of the infinite God?Is the infinite God "Light"? The infinite God's actions are Good. Satan's actions are evil, and even though he is still a "god", he can no longer exist in the Light though he has not ceased to be a "god". So, it seems that "gods" are held to the principles of "Law" or "organization".Satan has dominions and prinicipalties of darkness all around us, unseen by the human eye. Yet even Heaven cannot be seen with the human eye. What part does the "veil" play in this? Doe the veil only exist in our minds? All spirit is made of matter. How does the existence of spirit matter effect all the "something" and/or the "nothing"? Do our spirits "push back" the space that is God? Or can they co-exist in that space without effecting it? I would say that "good" spirits as well as "evil" spirits are also held to the principles of Law and Organization. Outer darkness exists without ANY light at all. Where is it? It must take up "space", or will take up space once Satan and his followers are put there because they are also spirit; thus have substance of matter. I think we could really run with this one; but I won't get very far before my brain explodes. Which would lead to more interesting questions.... jo
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