King Solomon'S Ring/Seal

[Nathair/|\]

Tonight on SyFy's Legendquest series; the hosts were looking for King Solomon's ring. Of course, their methodology was problematic at best from the claimed scholarly/scientific point of view (I would be more forgiving if they were claiming intuition) and the legend as presented is almost certainly incorrect (you will rarely see me take a hardline stance against any legend, but in this case, I think I have to.)

What I am interested in is learning where the legend came from and what it says about the people who created it and passed it on.

Another question prompted by the show is that they tied the Greek word for fish to the eight spoked wheel, mapping the letters onto the wheel. I am curious if that is valid in the sense that it was used that way by early Christians.

Thanks,

Yours under the curious oaks,

Nathair /|\

[Ron Beron]

Tonight on SyFy's Legendquest series; the hosts were looking for King Solomon's ring. Of course, their methodology was problematic at best from the claimed scholarly/scientific point of view (I would be more forgiving if they were claiming intuition) and the legend as presented is almost certainly incorrect (you will rarely see me take a hardline stance against any legend, but in this case, I think I have to.)

What I am interested in is learning where the legend came from and what it says about the people who created it and passed it on.

Another question prompted by the show is that they tied the Greek word for fish to the eight spoked wheel, mapping the letters onto the wheel. I am curious if that is valid in the sense that it was used that way by early Christians.

Thanks,

Yours under the curious oaks,

Nathair /|\

One of the problems the show presented was the supposed symbol of the Mogen David on the ring. The symbol itself didn't exist until the early Christian era and not popularized until the middle ages and then as a protective amulet. There is ostensibly no connection with Solomon. The Jewish Encyclopedia gives the following...

Solomon is represented as having authority over spirits, animals, wind, and water, all of which obeyed his orders by virtue of a magic ring set with the four jewels given him by the angels that had power over these four realms. A similar ring is mentioned in stories of the "Arabian Nights." The power inherent in the ring is shown by the following story: It was Solomon's custom to take off the ring when he was about to wash, and to give it to one of his wives, Amina, to hold. On one occasion, when the ring was in Amina's keeping, the rebellious spirit Sakhr took on Solomon's form and obtained the ring. He then seated himself on the throne and ruled for forty days, during which time the real king wandered about the country, poor and forlorn. On the fortieth day Sakhr dropped the ring into the sea; there it was swallowed by a fish, which was caught by a poor fisherman and given to Solomon for his supper. Solomon cut open the fish, found the ring, and returned to power. His forty days' exile had been sent in punishment for the idolatry practised in his house for forty days, although unknown to him, by one of his wives (Koran, sura xxxviii. 33-34; Baiḍawi, ii. 187; Ṭabri, "Annales," ed. De Goeje, i. 592 et seq.).

Read more: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=894&letter=S#2956#ixzz1UkrVz3yo

As to the wheel symbol it probably relates to the Kabbalistic Merkabah which was associated with the wheeled fiery chariot of Ezekial.

[Maidservant]

You may be interested in finding out about and reading what Islam and the Quran teach about King Solomon (who is referred to and indeed is one of the prophets in Islam). Suleiman had power over jinns. Of course, Islam did not make its advent until the 7th century CE, so one would still be curious as to what tradition this is building upon.

[mfbukowski]

I have always thought the spoked wheel was a genuine early Christian symbol- I think it is related to the chi-rho

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

http://www.jesuswalk...x389vatican.jpg

Edited August 11, 2011 by mfbukowski

[volgadon]

One of the problems the show presented was the supposed symbol of the Mogen David on the ring. The symbol itself didn't exist until the early Christian era and not popularized until the middle ages and then as a protective amulet. There is ostensibly no connection with Solomon. The Jewish Encyclopedia gives the following...

As to the wheel symbol it probably relates to the Kabbalistic Merkabah which was associated with the wheeled fiery chariot of Ezekial.

The symbol now called a Magen David is actually extremely old. There was even an etching of one which was found in Megiddo. The symbol was also very widespread, even being found in Copan and on a 12th C.E. ceramic bowl from Bandelier National Monument in New Mexico. You are right though that it didn't become a particularly Jewish symbol until the Middle Ages, assertions regarding the six-pointed lily notwithstanding.

You are also right that it played a huge role in amulet making.

I enjoy this blog, which has tons of pictures and other goodies. http://star-of-david.blogspot.com

Edited August 11, 2011 by volgadon

[LeSellers]

The symbol now called a Magen David is ... didn't become a particularly Jewish symbol until the Middle Ages, assertions regarding the six-pointed lily notwithstanding.

Regarding the "six-pointed lily", I have had people conjecture that the font in Solomon's Temple was a hexagon, not a circle, so its perimeter would have been thrice its "diameter", and thus, π ≠ 3 in the Bible. (That's not what the text says, but ... .)

Anyway, do you know of any connection?

Lehi

[volgadon]

Regarding the "six-pointed lily", I have had people conjecture that the font in Solomon's Temple was a hexagon, not a circle, so its perimeter would have been thrice its "diameter", and thus, π ≠ 3 in the Bible. (That's not what the text says, but ... .)

Anyway, do you know of any connection?

Lehi

I'll take a look.

[Ron Beron]

I have always thought the spoked wheel was a genuine early Christian symbol- I think it is related to the chi-rho

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

http://www.jesuswalk...x389vatican.jpg

The Chi Rho was entirely different. Constantine originated its use after seeing a vision in the sky, "In this sign thou shalt conquer".

[LeSellers]

I have had people conjecture that the font in Solomon's Temple was a hexagon, ...

I'll take a look.

Thanks.

Lehi

[mfbukowski]

The Chi Rho was entirely different. Constantine originated its use after seeing a vision in the sky, "In this sign thou shalt conquer".

I don't believe that that "actually happened".

I think maybe Constantine fibbed.

As I said, I think it is actually related to the wheel symbol, appropriated for Constantine's use.

[mfbukowski]

You know, all of these symbols cannot, in my opinion, really be seen "objectively"- all our perceptions are so colored by culture that everyone sees what they want to see in them.

We cannot divorce ourselves from our cultural prejudices. The eight spoked wheel is THE major symbol of Buddhism, so could it be said that Christianity's use of this symbol was "actually" derived from Buddhism?

We search for Hebrew and Egyptian symbols on this side of the Atlantic, believing they must be here, but it is impossible that Indian teachings did NOT make it to the mid-East?

When I personally look at an eight spoked wheel- I see a compass rose, in a circle- a perfect symbol of the cosmos; I also see that any one of the "wedges" can be seen as a compass dividing four "square" angles into two segments- male and female becoming one, all four of these pairs united, sealed together into one circle, created by the compasses - so now you have male female, the four directions, the world and the universe in one symbol. So compasses, squares, circles, male and female all in one truth. Sound familiar?

You stare at something long enough and you can see anything you want symbolically.

So does that mean that those meanings ARE there or ARE NOT?

It really doesn't matter, obviously. God uses whatever is available to inspire us and move us forward. But if I can just sit in my chair and do all that, who is to say "what the ancients believed" about a symbol and what they did not believe about a symbol?

I can do it, but they could not see many many things in that same symbol?

Bottom line is that I don't think these kind of questions matter much. We all create our own world-views out of a patchwork of all this stuff, and I think we can never get free from it to see "for sure" what someone else saw or didn't see in it.