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Altering Moses To Understand "Agency"


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I think one point must be clear, Satan is not needed for the plan to work. That said, God allowed Satan to tempt the children of men to see just exactly who was on what side of the game. Satan does not have to exist in order for agency to exist.

Well, that is not exactly what the scripture says. It says: "And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, . . ." That suggests some kind of necessity rather than an expediency. The opposition had to come from some source. If it hadn't come from Satan, where else would it have come from?

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I think one point must be clear, Satan is not needed for the plan to work. That said, God allowed Satan to tempt the children of men to see just exactly who was on what side of the game. Satan does not have to exist in order for agency to exist.

Evil has to exist, though, otherwise there would be nothing to choose but good.

Do you understand that Satan's goal involves getting rid of the whole concept of "evil" while getting everyone to believe that whatever they do is good?

Do you understand that to those who do evil and like it, they consider the evil they do to be good?

Satan wanted and still wants our Father to allow anyone to do anything they want to do and still be able to return to the Celestial kingdom, and some people's concept of "Christianity" is pretty dang close to being more like Satan's plan than our Father's.

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Evil has to exist, though, otherwise there would be nothing to choose but good.

Do you understand that Satan's goal involves getting rid of the whole concept of "evil" while getting everyone to believe that whatever they do is good?

Do you understand that to those who do evil and like it, they consider the evil they do to be good?

Satan wanted and still wants our Father to allow anyone to do anything they want to do and still be able to return to the Celestial kingdom, and some people's concept of "Christianity" is pretty dang close to being more like Satan's plan than our Father's.

Evil doesn't have to exist, only the opportunity for it must exist. What happens when Satan and his works (evilness) are destroyed? Will people not be able to choose anything but good at that point?

I fully support the idea that Satan wanted evil to be considered good. The problem though as I see it, is that Satan didn't realize that wickedness is punishable by God's laws- people really can't be given any right of passage for doing wickedness as Satan thought. It shows how little Satan knew about eternal law at that point.

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Evil doesn't have to exist, only the opportunity for it must exist.

Well, I would say that evil has to exist at least as a concept and a choice, even if nobody ever chose to do anything evil, and from a point when anyone ever did choose to do anything evil then evil would exist in reality at that point even if there was a plan with a way provided to overcome all that is evil.

What happens when Satan and his works (evilness) are destroyed?

They will still exist in some way even if only as a memory of what happened and what could still happen to people who follow the same path.

Will people not be able to choose anything but good at that point?

Evil will always be a choice, and those who do evil will always exist in some form or another.

The goal for those who want to become like our Father is to overcome evil with good, rather than to obliterate or annihilate all that is evil... even if it is possible.

I fully support the idea that Satan wanted evil to be considered good. The problem though as I see it, is that Satan didn't realize that wickedness is punishable by God's laws- people really can't be given any right of passage for doing wickedness as Satan thought. It shows how little Satan knew about eternal law at that point.

Right, and it also shows how little he knew about how our Father was set in his ways of righteousness.

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In my understanding, the presentation of the story of the council and war "in heaven" or in pre-mortal life is less about the history of our past (of which we are given little detail), and is rather intended as a key for us to discern and see clearly the conditions of life in the present. The presentation of this story is highly stylized and holds symbolic and archetypical elements; thus is a pattern or template as to how to understand the condition of life and humanity (being children of God).

If we can understand this presentation by study and by revelation (Spirit), then we are better prepared to navigate the world today and to overcome both individually and as communities and as the whole human family, to overcome those things that bind us in the present from receiving the revelation of the celestial kingdom.

In any discussion of any gospel principle, it is important to remember or realize that no one "gets" or "goes" to heaven; and certainly not by a numerical preponderance of good acts. Rather, through our struggles of life, we *become* . . . we overcome all things. We become godly (good). The struggle is messy and involves a lot of failure (even including what is evil, at times), but if we have accessed the power of the Atonement and if we endure in our best efforts to do good, then we will continue to overcome until we are prepared to enjoy glories . . . which accrue to us by the very nature of our lives (by the merits of the Atonement in the first place), not by some dispensation in some future (although certainly the future will be brighter as more and more people as individuals overcome, so that our communities and our whole world overcomes as well).

As agents, we only have one choice. Being an agent is not about choosing which breakfast cereal one will have. We are agents of God or agents of Satan. In this mortal world with wheat and tares together, sometimes there is some of both going on. But by our actions in any given situation (whether that situation affords limited or myriad choices), we only have the one choice . . . to allow God (good) to enter the world by our acts, life, and being . . . or to permit Satan to enter the world at the location of our selves (bodies) by our acts. The scriptures teach us that Satan will be bound by the hearts of men.

As the history of the world has passed, one great trouble has been that those who believed they were doing right and what God asked them to do, have actually perpetrated great evils. One extreme example would be the Salem Witch Trials. Those involved did those acts that they understood would lead to salvation (for their community). They rooted out the evil that they perceived, and rooted it out definitely! So, as I understand it, they heard the voice of Satan saying, "I am God, listen to me, and I will save you. You must be righteous! And the only righteous people are the ones who believe exactly like we do [=I will save all men that none will be lost]! Now go kill those witches."

The trouble with discernment is that Satan doesn't sound like Satan . . . he much too often sounds a lot like God at first glance. So a true discernment must be developed and can only exist by the power of the Holy Ghost (and Moses ch 1 and 2 are keys for the development of this discerning, or sight; also Ether ch 3).

We have the same trouble like the Salem Witch Trials today, only things like Salem Witch Trials we understand now and wonder how we could have been so blind. But we still participate in blind things today unfortunately. This is precisely why we need the key of this story of the council in heaven. Also I would commend to you all of Moses Chapter 7, which to me is THE centrality of the Father's plan of happiness and the key to all overcoming. The Father does not weep because people aren't attending church, or because women are wearing too short of skirts. He is not weeping because some smoke, or some are unbaptized, or etc etc etc. He weeps because we hate each other and shed each others blood. If this isn't a timely key, I don't know what is.

Edited by Maidservant
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