Would You Vote For A Mormon?

[TAO]

"There is no homosexual gene, nor is there any proof that homosexuality is genetic. This is a falsehood. Please provide your evidence. "Lady Gaga" is not considered evidence just so you know. (please submit evidence on another thread so as not to anger the Mods"

Ok, I'll answer this one for you. It is in genes, just as everything is. But so is the inclination to murder. So is the inclination to cheat on your wife. Just cuz it's in your genes doesn't give you an excuse to avoid not doing it =p.

I don't have to remind you the Smithsonian and several other historical/ archeological bodies view the BOM as fiction (exept of course those few who are LDS and build careers on championing their prophet).

Just to let you know, the Smithsonian withdrew that claim several years ago. As of now, they say 'we do not take a position' essentially.

RACISM and discrimination IS AN OFFENSE TO ANY TRUE CHRISTIAN. I don't have to be black to be hurt by the awful and condescending way the 'Lamanites' are written about.

My friend, read 2nd Nephi. The Lamanites are multiple groups of people - not all the decendents of Laman. The Lamanites in the Book of Mormon actually refer to those who go against the will of God. That is how Nephi divided them, rather than split them up into six or seven different groups.

Obviously the church itself saw this as an embarassment and changed the wording. Wait a minute, I thought the BOM was supposedly the most truthful book on the planet. If that is true, why would it need to be changed?

You haven't heard of spelling errors...? There are only two major corrections in the BoM and both can be justified pretty easily in my opinion.

For if my information is derived from a source which isn't 'sanctioned' by your church you won't believe it anyway.

You may post it, just don't expect it to just 'be accepted'. We are an apologetics community here, and we are used to slicing up sites that don't do proper research. It sound vicious kinda =P. But it's true. ;P

Friendly Wishes,

TAO

[TAO]

Duplicate.

Edited June 26, 2011 by TAO

[Pahoran]

The concern is that if a man (such as a Romney or Huntsman) whole heartedly believes in what is taught in Mormon doctrine, it causes many Americans and most Christians to be just a little suspicious of his ability to make rational and logical decisions on behalf of the country.

It doesn't cause unwarranted suspicions on the part of LDS Christians and informed people, though. Only the triumphantly ignorant, and the dishonest demagogues who play to their prejudices.

This is meant to be a factual observation, not some form of attack on anyone.

I agree that there are ignorant people who think that way.

For example, if a candidate for President of the United States believes in a faith that:

• Not only lacks archeological evidence to support the claims made by it's founder, but actually contradicts such claims. Remember when the Smithsonian Institute documented 8 major areas of holes in Mormon history? That was a devistating blow.

Not nearly as "devistating"[sic] as the fact that the Smithsonian essentially repudiated that discredited letter. But the memo has apparently not reached some quarters.

Also, the founder of the the Archeology Dept. at BYU, Professor Thomas Ferguson, spent 25 years researching topography, history, people, coins, settlements, etc... claimed by mormon history. His conclusion, in his final paper, he said Mormon history is "fictional". Contrast this to the Bible, which continues to be one of the most historicallly accurate books known to man. Just one of the reasons Christians are concerned about Mormonism.

Thank you for this excellent example of the quality of your "facts." Setting aside the little details that Ferguson was not a professor, was not an archaeologist, did not found the archaeology department at BYU, and The Book of Mormon does not mention coins, you've given us a wealth of useful information.

I'll round-file the rest.

Regards,

Pahoran

[IloveaMormon]

The concern is that if a man (such as a Romney or Huntsman) whole heartedly believes in what is taught in Mormon doctrine, it causes many Americans and most Christians to be just a little suspicious of his ability to make rational and logical decisions on behalf of the country. This is meant to be a factual observation, not some form of attack on anyone.

For example, if a candidate for President of the United States believes in a faith that:

• Not only lacks archeological evidence to support the claims made by it's founder, but actually contradicts such claims. Remember when the Smithsonian Institute documented 8 major areas of holes in Mormon history? That was a devistating blow. Also, the founder of the the Archeology Dept. at BYU, Professor Thomas Ferguson, spent 25 years researching topography, history, people, coins, settlements, etc... claimed by mormon history. His conclusion, in his final paper, he said Mormon history is "fictional". Contrast this to the Bible, which continues to be one of the most historicallly accurate books known to man. Just one of the reasons Christians are concerned about Mormonism.
• White people are preferred over people of color in the eyes of God...that Indians, Blacks are "cursed", etc... (2 Nephi 5:21, Book of Moses 7:8-12, Book of Abraham 1:24, or even Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 7:290, 10:110). That's contrary to the character of the God of the Bible.
• Believes in many gods, not one true God. Teachings of Joseph Smith #349
• Polygamy was part of the faith until the U.S. Govt pressured the church, resulting in LDS President Woodruff to conveniently, and suddenly, say he just had a "revelation" that Polygamy should be obstained until the after life.
• Jesus was/is the brother of Satan. I won't go into his conception....
• Salvation is by works, not by grace alone as is stated in the Bible. Thus, minimizing Christs work on the cross.
• Much, much more...

Don't want to belabor the point, but want to be candid about just a portion of why many Americans and most Christians have a deep concern about electing a mormon. Thus, you will always see polls reflecting that there is a significant concern in electing a candidate that would believe in the aforementioned, which is the tip of the ice berg.

I imagine this post will be deleted, but I hope not. If it is, that will speak volumes....

Some of these issues are what keeps me from joinging the church.

[ELF1024]

Some of these issues are what keeps me from join-ing the church.

Then you really need to actually do your own "research" instead of just hitting the Anti-LDS websites and taking them for their word.

Thus far I haven't seen anything new, just recycled anti-LDS rhetoric that has been proven false time and time again. As such, I'll allow people with far more patience for such behavior continue to answer you and will cease to bother you.

Edited June 27, 2011 by ELF1024

[TAO]

Some of these issues are what keeps me from joinging the church.

My friend, you should deal with these issues on the forum, they aggravated me at first, till I found the appropriate answers to deal with them. The answers exist - you just have got to find them =). I can tell you I did =D. It looks like Elf did too. As did many people on this forum =).

Best Wishes,

TAO

[Storm Rider]

The concern is that if a man (such as a Romney or Huntsman) whole heartedly believes in what is taught in Mormon doctrine, it causes many Americans and most Christians to be just a little suspicious of his ability to make rational and logical decisions on behalf of the country. This is meant to be a factual observation, not some form of attack on anyone.

For example, if a candidate for President of the United States believes in a faith that:

• Not only lacks archeological evidence to support the claims made by it's founder, but actually contradicts such claims. Remember when the Smithsonian Institute documented 8 major areas of holes in Mormon history? That was a devistating blow. Also, the founder of the the Archeology Dept. at BYU, Professor Thomas Ferguson, spent 25 years researching topography, history, people, coins, settlements, etc... claimed by mormon history. His conclusion, in his final paper, he said Mormon history is "fictional". Contrast this to the Bible, which continues to be one of the most historicallly accurate books known to man. Just one of the reasons Christians are concerned about Mormonism.
• White people are preferred over people of color in the eyes of God...that Indians, Blacks are "cursed", etc... (2 Nephi 5:21, Book of Moses 7:8-12, Book of Abraham 1:24, or even Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 7:290, 10:110). That's contrary to the character of the God of the Bible.
• Believes in many gods, not one true God. Teachings of Joseph Smith #349
• Polygamy was part of the faith until the U.S. Govt pressured the church, resulting in LDS President Woodruff to conveniently, and suddenly, say he just had a "revelation" that Polygamy should be obstained until the after life.
• Jesus was/is the brother of Satan. I won't go into his conception....
• Salvation is by works, not by grace alone as is stated in the Bible. Thus, minimizing Christs work on the cross.
• Much, much more...

Don't want to belabor the point, but want to be candid about just a portion of why many Americans and most Christians have a deep concern about electing a mormon. Thus, you will always see polls reflecting that there is a significant concern in electing a candidate that would believe in the aforementioned, which is the tip of the ice berg.

I imagine this post will be deleted, but I hope not. If it is, that will speak volumes....

I come close to a mental projectile vomit episode when I read this type of dismal, confused tripe. Would you vote for a Catholic? You know, the ones who weekinly eat the body of their God and drink his blood; that wear magic amulets in the shape of a cross around their necks to protect them from evil spirits; the ones that created a doctrine about Mary out of whole cloth and think she is the "Queen of Heaven"; that believe that somehow restricting the sexual activity of their holy men somehow produces well balanced humans; and much, much more...

After working with "Catholic" apologists and Evangelical of the same strain, I have grown disgusted with the dishonesty and the wholly lacking in the Spirit of Christ that is so apparent in their actions and in their words. Would I vote for an Evangelical? Not on your life; why? Because I could not in good concience accept a biggot for a President. Would I accept a Catholic? It depends on if he goes to church regularly. I guess I just could not vote for a zealot of any religion.

It seems to me that LDS have grown so used to being abused by people who call themselves "Christians" that we just accept it. My response has been to ignore these people (while inside I still heave my toe nails up when forced to hear their complete ignorance of our beliefs). I recognize a Christian not by his words, but by what (s)he does.

Sorry for the soap box, but while cleaning up my mental wall from the episode I felt it appropriate to vent.

Oh, and please, drop the sanctimonious "I imagine this post will be deleted, but I hope not. If it is, that will speak volumes..." What exactly does the forum in for keeping it up? Do we become acknowledged for being more Christian than the Catholic website? or CARM?

Bad day I guess, but I still cleaning my wall up.

[LeSellers]

Some of these issues are what keeps me from joinging the church.

And, interestingly, all false.

Lehi

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Some of these issues are what keeps me from joinging the church.

Seriously? the fact that no coins have been found in the new world kept you from joining the church. You do realize that the text of BoM never speaks of coins.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Don't have a clue what your reference to 'Lady Gaga' means.

You ask me to 'provide my evidence'. Certainly. First, tell me where I might find those elusive 'Golden Plates'.

Ok let me play devils advocate. There is no evidence for the LDS church. It is clearly false. How does the fact that the golden plates don't exist help your argument for the gay gene?

Are you admitting that you don't have any evidence for the gay gene and your just playing with us?

Now, onto another angle. What does the golden plates have to do with being gay?

Note: I do not believe the golden plates are fictional and I do not believe the church is false.

And as for the issue of people of color- yes, I am offended Joseph Smith said the BOM was an accurate history of the people of the Americas (and claimed it was the TRUEST BOOK ON THE EARTH') and meanwhile he disrespects my ancestors since his stories about the Lamanites and the way they lived sound more like Roman culture than any Meso American culture.

CFR on all points. I think you are confusing issues here.

discrimination IS AN OFFENSE TO ANY TRUE CHRISTIAN.

Is it?

Who were the only people to hold the priesthood back in the day of Moses? Why did God discriminate back then?

I don't have to be black to be hurt by the awful and condescending way the 'Lamanites' are written about.

And how were the laminates written about? This is going to be fun.

Obviously the church itself saw this as an embarassment and changed the wording. Wait a minute, I thought the BOM was supposedly the most truthful book on the planet. If that is true, why would it need to be changed?

I think the only embarrassment is your treatment of anything that has to do with the BoM. I suggest, again, that you try to understand the ancient context of "skins of blackness". It has nothing to do with actual skin color.

I shant provide you with written proof' of anything. For if my information is derived from a source which isn't 'sanctioned' by your church you won't believe it anyway.

Shant? That is not even a word. Any way it is a falsehood to think that "if my information is derived from a source which isn't 'sanctioned' by your church you won't believe it anyway.

Just what is "sanctioned" by my church? This is laughable. CFR please.

[Commander]

Hard to overcome religious prejudice.

[Ares]

This topic should not devolve into a list of "problems" with Mormonism. If there are specific doctrinal or social issues you want to address please start new threads for those issues. Be forwarned - laundry lists of critiques (spamming) is not in the spirit of this discussion board.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

This topic should not devolve into a list of "problems" with Mormonism. If there are specific doctrinal or social issues you want to address please start new threads for those issues. Be forwarned - laundry lists of critiques (spamming) is not in the spirit of this discussion board.

I guess your message fell on deaf ears?

Edited June 28, 2011 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Herestonewbeginnings did not pay attention to the moderator request. Here are the highlights of the deleted post that was responded to below... -Mod

My concerns about Joe...

An entire new religion appears on the scene through a highly questionable character...

Johnny Come Lately religion...

LDS has some DEEEEEP pockets!!!

I've heard the rumors of how LDS influenced...

Why invest millions of dollars doing that if there wasn't a negative perception to overcome?

THE GODMAKERS

Just like your last post there are too many false hoods to address. Thanks for implying once again that Mormons are rubes and incapable of thinking on their own.

And the God Makers is one of the worst propaganda pieces out there. CFR that LDS spent big money on countering his claims. I am unaware of any video or piece of material put out by the church that really even mentions the God Makers let alone tries to "counter" it.

The only reason you would be banned is by not following the board rules, so you see it really is by your choice.

[Ares]

Automatic generated message

This topic has been closed by a moderator.

Reason: Derailed by a poster who could not respect the board rules

Kind regards,

Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board Staff