The Sons Of God And The Daughters Of Men

[Franktalk]

So, in essence, you're agreeing with me: that the Flood did not wipe out the giants (offspring of the "angels" and the daughters of men?

Yet, given that, from your perspective, the reason for the Flood wasd to "wipe out" the "bad seed", 'tappears it failed.

Lehi

I am sorry I did not make myself clear. There were some angels who came to the earth and took women. They were taken off the earth and are now in chains. Their offspring was completely wiped out. At another time some other fallen angels did the same thing. They were also taken away and their offspring wiped out as well. I do think we are in for a third round of this. In my mind there were only eight that survived the flood. None of those were giants (nephilim).

Jude

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

We may argue over the meaning of this but I take it as those angels that took on physical form and took wives.

All of what I say is opinion. I am not declaring it truth. But I do read the Bible and do form my own views from much study. But I am always ready to change my view when truth comes along.

Just like I have two castings out of angels in heaven. One where they were tossed because they did not go along with Fathers plan. This time they were tossed from the high heaven. The second time is when the Devil's messenger stands in the Holy place and announces himself god. Here I think they are tossed from the middle heaven. It is a view and to me it makes more sense in reading some verses. But I don't know the truth of it. I think scripture is way more complex than we know.

[LeSellers]

At another time some other fallen angels did the same thing. They were also taken away and their offspring wiped out as well.

This is getting more and more baffling.

I am still curious as to how these "fallen angels" managed to impregnate physical women. We know that Satan and his minions have no bodies. We know that God controls who can come to earth with a body. We know that all peoples of this planet are His spiritual offspring.

So how, prithee, did a series of groups of fallen angels bypass the Priesthood controls of God and manage to get bodies and then to father children whose spirits, too, would have been subject to those same hurdles? It simply is beyond my comprehension.

Is God in control of who comes here? Are those of us who do come His children? Your scenario does not fit the picture.

Lehi

[Franktalk]

This is getting more and more baffling.

I am still curious as to how these "fallen angels" managed to impregnate physical women. We know that Satan and his minions have no bodies. We know that God controls who can come to earth with a body. We know that all peoples of this planet are His spiritual offspring.

So how, prithee, did a series of groups of fallen angels bypass the Priesthood controls of God and manage to get bodies and then to father children whose spirits, too, would have been subject to those same hurdles? It simply is beyond my comprehension.

Is God in control of who comes here? Are those of us who do come His children? Your scenario does not fit the picture.

Lehi

Scripture can and is a stumbling block for many. My comments may not be appropriate for those who are not strong in spirit. So I am not going to respond to any more questions. If you wish PM me and I will be happy to discuss many things. I am sorry I even made the first post.

[LeSellers]

Scripture can and is a stumbling block for many. My comments may not be appropriate for those who are not strong in spirit. So I am not going to respond to any more questions. If you wish PM me and I will be happy to discuss many things.

I feel little inclination to correspond with someone who, at least implicitly, labels me as "not strong [weak] in spirit", and who charges that I have tripped over scripture.

Lehi

[alter idem]

I do believe that some angels came down and cast off their first estate. They did mix with women and did produce offspring. I do believe that the flood was necessary to wipe out the bad seed. I think that these angels are being held in total darkness. I think that some other angels came down again just before Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt and did have some offspring. One of the jobs of the Jews was to wipe them out. I do believe that as the end times come we will have some more fallen angels produce addition offspring. It is the way I read prophecy. I may not be right but this works for me.

This view does sound like the legends of the Nephilim--

It's certainly more interesting than the more practical explanation found in the manual.

I think yours definately would make a better plot in a book or movie.. but the manual's explanation works for me.

[Mars]

I think yours definately would make a better plot in a book or movie.. but the manual's explanation works for me.

Many Waters, by Madeleine L'Engle

One of my favorites.

[Franktalk]

I feel little inclination to correspond with someone who, at least implicitly, labels me as "not strong [weak] in spirit", and who charges that I have tripped over scripture.

Lehi

Actually I thought you would not come to that conclusion. And from your posts I thought you had thicker skin than this last post indicated. I did not include you in what I would describe as weak willed. But there are some new to scripture in which they should drink the milk before going on to other topics. When I feel I should leave a topic I do so. So have fun without me.

[David T]

I am sorry I did not make myself clear. There were some angels who came to the earth and took women. They were taken off the earth and are now in chains. Their offspring was completely wiped out. At another time some other fallen angels did the same thing. They were also taken away and their offspring wiped out as well. I do think we are in for a third round of this. In my mind there were only eight that survived the flood. None of those were giants (nephilim).

Jude

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

We may argue over the meaning of this but I take it as those angels that took on physical form and took wives.

All of what I say is opinion. I am not declaring it truth. But I do read the Bible and do form my own views from much study. But I am always ready to change my view when truth comes along.

Just like I have two castings out of angels in heaven. One where they were tossed because they did not go along with Fathers plan. This time they were tossed from the high heaven. The second time is when the Devil's messenger stands in the Holy place and announces himself god. Here I think they are tossed from the middle heaven. It is a view and to me it makes more sense in reading some verses. But I don't know the truth of it. I think scripture is way more complex than we know.

Jude, like the epistles of Peter, are alluding to the myths as developed in 1 Enoch (and other contemporary Enochic lit), which even then was a metaphor about what the writer viewed as apostate/wicked priests (rebel angels) leaving their posts and roles in the Temple (Heaven), and whoring around and defiling that which was sacred. It uses that present-day story as a metaphor for the Origins of Evil. The elements of giants as the illegitimate offspring are just (literally) larger than life mythic aspects of the story. According to one strand of 1 Enoch, the death of the giants is what creates the wandering spirits of the demons on the earth, which are known to be condemned to the Abyss in the Eschaton. This story is the basis of some of the statements presented in the Gospel exorcism accounts.

It's not history. Rebel Angels were not coming down and having sex with girls, making Giant Babies, who were killed, and turned into Demons. That doesn't even work from a modern LDS perspective concerning angelology.

[dougtheavenger]

on another forum we were discussing Genesis 6:2... Wild speculations on my part, but it seems like there is a distinction of two family trees going on here - one family tree are the descendants of Adam who was a son of God - hence "sons of God" and another line, who, rather than being a descendant of God were children of "men"... Just thinking that at one point many thought the Nephites/Lamanites were the only people who populated the Americas... at one point some also thought that Adam/Eve were the only ones populating the Earth... We now know that there were other people besides the Nephites/Lamanites living in America... we also now know that there were more people than Adam/Eve living on the earth 6,000 years ago... perhaps this account of "the sons of God saw the daughters of men..." is the account of the mixing of two family trees? That Adam and Eve's children did not have to marry one another after all, but instead got together with the indigenous population? Has anyone else read that theory anywhere? Just wild speculations, don't know why I even posted that, sorry.

Incest was essential to establishing the human race. Sorry if this is distasteful for you but it is inescapable.

[ERayR]

I believe the church institute manual says that the 'sons of God' were those who were children of the birthrite-kind of 'born in the covenant'-and that the 'daughters of men' were women from families who were a different religion-pagans.

Basically, members marrying non-members, so to speak.

I am not supporting the OP premise but would like to comment that I do not hold the institute manual to be inviolate.