Satan And Science

[keith_brian]

If I was a scientist I think I would be very careful with data and assumptions. I would be pretty weak on theories but would love to publish data. I will be retiring in a few years so I will be looking for something to do. I may start to look at energy storage. We need a replacement for the battery. At least in its current heavy and expensive form. Maybe I could devote a few years to that study.

I did try and take energy from the background zero point energy using crystals but a 3 horsepower device would be the size of a small mountain. Who knows maybe someone will find a way to tap into it without using the Casimir effect. It is possible that someone will find a way using some kind of field. I have avoided quantum field theory because it is mind numbing complex. I would have to devote a large chuck of time to just learning what is currently thought to be true. A retirement project for sure.

Zero point energy, and the quantum physics that are behind it, are mind numbingly complex, as you say. I have taken graduate level Physics classes where we studied advance quantum physics, and the mathematics behind it is really, really complicated. Basically, this energy comes from an imbalance in the virtual particles possible in the vacuum between the plates and the ones in the vacuum outside of the plates. And, by virtual particles, I literally mean particles that pop in and out of existence in a very short time frame. It's really weird stuff, and the version of it with math is even harder.

I am not going to say that we will never be able to harness this energy. I have learned that the word never is not a good one to use at times when dealing with Physics. But, it would be a neat breakthrough for Physics. I am still amazed every day at the advancements brought on by Physics. It's really, really cool.

If you do discover a way to harness zero point energy, be sure to publish.

[Franktalk]

Ah free energy. The problem with free energy, even if it were available, is it has to go somewhere as heat after any useful work is done. Make it available planet wide to every individual and say goodbye to the planet. Things are the way they are for a reason, so if you stumble upon it, please keep it a secret. Thankyou..

You do see the problem. If someone does find a way to make the zero point particles go into an unbalanced state so we could tap into that unbalance then we would have basically unlimited power. Like split the earth in half kind of power. So I agree with you that this kind of solution is more like Pandora's box. I wrote a book about a group of people who find a way to tap into the ZPE. I wrote it using your same logic. Once found it had to be kept a secret. It did not work out that well for them.

I suspect that if given enough time man could find out many things about the universe. But I think that God has a plan and that plan shows an end date for this arrangement of matter and souls. I don't find it surprising at all that the end times are near and our ability to probe the deep secrets of matter are both coming together. I think that we will run out of energy for the world about that same time as well. I think we are much closer to running out of oil than people think. Many things are pointing to the end and we should embrace the idea that the end will come as a fulfilled prophecy. Real bad times are coming but at the end is rebirth so man must go through tribulation and this time at Biblical scales. I study prophecy and I see many signs lining up but the signs have not come yet. There will not be any doubt when they do arrive. But one of the things that happens before the end is Satan's power is released. When this starts to happen the world will become polarized between good and evil. This may be already happening.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Franktalk

[shalamabobbi]

At the end of the day my worldview will not change.

And thus you prove my point.

What I see among LDS are those who accept the facts such as varves etc and those who deny facts such as viral DNA evidence and human chromosome II. I don't have an issue with what one chooses to believe about such matters. What tips me is the tendency towards inconsistent thinking. Either accept the facts and their implications or adopt a viewpoint that is self consistent and explains them away.

One approach might be the following. You could say we are here to develop faith. God does not want to have everything proven to us in this stage of our development. How much faith would it take to believe if there were physical evidence of the global flood and if life was found to go back 6K years and no trace found before that. Then one could argue for the holodeck manipulation of facts that hide the truth about what happened in the past. God cannot lie but He does hide things as in "eternal punishment is my punishment for eternal is my name."

If the facts stand as actual artifacts untampered with by God then they point to a different interpretation of scripture than the modern literalist bent.

What doesn't work is the idea that the facts are actual artifacts but there is another interpretation that will be apparent when we see the complete picture of how it all went down. There are too many correlated facts that are entirely independent in nature for that view to hold any water.

I have little respect for those among us that declare acceptance of facts as being in conflict with the opinions of some leaders and therefore apostate. If you want respect you have to at least be aware of the facts and have a consistent view that accounts for those facts.

[Franktalk]

If the facts stand as actual artifacts untampered with by God then they point to a different interpretation of scripture than the modern literalist bent.

What you see as actual artifacts are not. When you say that a particular layered layer of soil is in fact 20 million years old you make a few assumptions to get there. There is a risk that the interpretation of the layers is in error. The soil does not say I am 20 million years old. A person looks at dirt and makes that claim after a thought process. What if the way they are viewing the dirt is wrong? How would we know? A show of hands and opinions? If I am to adjust my views I need a more sure path to truth than that. But the Holy Ghost does not give geology lessons. So to me I just say I don't know. It may be old it may be young. But what I don't want to do is start down a path that will interfere with my relationship with God. You may feel that agreeing with all of the opinions of science will not interfere with a relationship with God. But examine your own words.

"......they point to a different interpretation of scripture than the modern literalist bent."

Are you saying I should adjust my view of scripture because of a pile of dirt? To me it is simple. I give scripture the highest priority. Then everything else. Some people give the ideas of man the highest priority and then what ever is left over they push God into that corner. I will not do that. If that is offensive to you then you have a problem not me.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Franktalk

[cinepro]

Are you saying I should adjust my view of scripture because of a pile of dirt? To me it is simple. I give scripture the highest priority. Then everything else. Some people give the ideas of man the highest priority and then what ever is left over they push God into that corner. I will not do that. If that is offensive to you then you have a problem not me.

Franktalk, do you think it is possible for some mistaken ideas or assumptions of man to have made it into scripture?

You've talked a lot about how fallible science is, but you haven't explained how fallible scripture can be. What do you think?

[Franktalk]

Franktalk, do you think it is possible for some mistaken ideas or assumptions of man to have made it into scripture?

You've talked a lot about how fallible science is, but you haven't explained how fallible scripture can be. What do you think?

This is a very good question. I think that scripture is much much more prone to error in interpretation compared to science. This does not change my priorities. I think that scripture is unclear and fuzzy on purpose. One must have faith to even hold to what can be interpreted well. I do not know why it is that our spirit is placed here to wade through the world to find out we are indeed a spirit. On the surface it does not make sense. But many of the ideas in scripture can be viewed as foolish. If one does not fully seek God one can be diverted easily. Only after developing faith does one get the inward confirmation or witness. Why this is is a mystery. But since I don't have the intellect of God I must just accept His plan. It is when man refuses to let another lead that man gets into trouble, pride is man's and Satan's downfall.

[cinepro]

I was recently perusing the Church's podcast catalog, and I was surprised to find that the Church has produced podcasts on some very scientific subjects, including "Nanomagnetics".

http://radio.lds.org/programs/insights?lang=eng

- Episode 2: Dr. Dennis Shiozawa, biology professor at Brigham Young University, shares his research into fresh-water fish. Learn how biologists track species and map DNA to better understand gene pools, evolution, and our effect on our environment.

- Episode 10: Did you know that 85% of the world’s energy comes from burning something? Dr. Thomas H. Fletcher discusses combustion and the history and future of energy.

And don't miss the first podcast in that series on the history of Islam. Do you even need to click on the link to know who did it?

[Questions11]

However, as much as I ask, I have yet to hear a religious person describe what experiment we could do to convince them in the non-existence of something.

Hi Eldwynn,

Doesn't the book of Mormon contain description of an experiment that can be put to the test?

"We invite all men everywhere to read the Book of Mormon, to ponder in their hearts the message it contains, and then to ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ if the book is true. Those who pursue this course sincerely seeking the truth and asking in faith will gain a testimony of its truth and divinity by the power of the Holy Ghost."

"Now, we will compare the book of Mormon unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be the truth, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief and are sincere seeking the truth then ye may know the truth of it according to the promise given. Pray in sincere prayer after reading the book of Mormon and put it to the test, but pray not with your mind set in your ways but with an open and sincere heart asking of God in faith even if you believe not in a God."

"Put this promise and experiment to the test."

Have you done so?

[Franktalk]

Hi Eldwynn,

Doesn't the book of Mormon contain description of an experiment that can be put to the test?

"We invite all men everywhere to read the Book of Mormon, to ponder in their hearts the message it contains, and then to ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ if the book is true. Those who pursue this course sincerely seeking the truth and asking in faith will gain a testimony of its truth and divinity by the power of the Holy Ghost."

"Now, we will compare the book of Mormon unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be the truth, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief and are sincere seeking the truth then ye may know the truth of it according to the promise given. Pray in sincere prayer after reading the book of Mormon and put it to the test, but pray not with your mind set in your ways but with an open and sincere heart asking of God in faith even if you believe not in a God."

"Put this promise and experiment to the test."

Have you done so?

The key to this experiment is faith. One must ask in faith not ask as a scientific investigator. This is where the test breaks down. Not that the test is not valid. But it depends on the faith of the person asking for answers. If you have not already made the leap to faith that you will receive an answer then no answer will come your way. In many cases the lack of an answer is an answer to the scientific mind. Since they are normally driven by the senses then the lack of an answer in their mind reinforces that belief.