Rob Bell And Eternal Hell

[zerinus]

Good question. Here's some interesting speculation...

"President Brigham Young has suggested that the ultimate punishment of the sons of perdition may be that they, having their spiritual bodies disorganized , must start over again must begin anew the long journey of existence , repeating the steps that they took in the eternities before the Great Council was held. That would be punishment, indeed! "They will be decomposed, both soul and body (body and spirit make up the soul) , and return to their native element. I do not say that they will be annihilated; but they will be disorganized and will be as if they had never been; while "we" live and retain our identity and contend against those principles which tend to death or dissolution" (Journal of Discourses, 7:57). "The clay that marred in the potter's hands was thrown back into the unprepared portion to be prepared over again" (Ibid., 2:124) (John A. Widtsoe , Evidences and Reconciliation's, page 213)

Those doctrines are more than "speculation". They are false. There is no such thing as spiritual "decomposition".

[HiJolly]

Those doctrines are more than "speculation". They are false. There is no such thing as spiritual "decomposition".

And you know this... how?

HiJolly

[Mike Richards]

Nice quote. I had heard about this concept from Orson Pratt, but didn't know it was also mentioned by BY.

Orson Pratt takes it to not only man, but to all forms of life. I'm paraphrasing some stuff I read on my mission, so I might be remembering wrong. But basically thinking of intelligences as the fundamental particles of everything and those intelligences have agency. As the intelligences are formed into a blade of grass, that blade of grass can fulfill the measure of it's creation and those intelligences "graduate" and combined with other onto a higher form of life, eventually ending in "man" who can become like God. If along that process the life form doesn't fulfill the measure of it's creation, it's it broken apart to it's fundamental particles of intelligences and it's starts over (never joining back up with those same intelligences, so it's is in essence a totally new being). A blade of grass can be broken apart back to intelligences, and so can a man.

Fun speculation.

Neat. We could assume that this is an ancient doctrine and identify it as the source of the mistaken doctrine of reincarnation. Those living on the subasian peninsula will flock to the church once we point this out.

[jo1952]

Nice quote. I had heard about this concept from Orson Pratt, but didn't know it was also mentioned by BY.

Orson Pratt takes it to not only man, but to all forms of life. I'm paraphrasing some stuff I read on my mission, so I might be remembering wrong. But basically thinking of intelligences as the fundamental particles of everything and those intelligences have agency. As the intelligences are formed into a blade of grass, that blade of grass can fulfill the measure of it's creation and those intelligences "graduate" and combined with other onto a higher form of life, eventually ending in "man" who can become like God. If along that process the life form doesn't fulfill the measure of it's creation, it's it broken apart to it's fundamental particles of intelligences and it's starts over (never joining back up with those same intelligences, so it's is in essence a totally new being). A blade of grass can be broken apart back to intelligences, and so can a man.

Fun speculation.

There are also the beasts in heaven which John saw in the Revelation. Joseph Smith has also commented on them though he admitted he did not fully comprehend what he was seeing. If I remember correctly, these beasts which he saw in heaven had fulfilled the measure of their creation. So this may be at naught against the above comments.

It is fund to speculate.

jo

[Mudcat]

lol...I think you might want to continue working on that title, Mudcat.

Yeah.. If love doesn't win, God will Zap you into nothingness after your dead is a bit wordy and probably to direct. I am thinking Disintegrate the Hate might be better. It is shorter, plus it rhymes.. so I can also make rap song about it. ;)

The thing is, if we have all of eternity to progress (as souls), it seems a lot more likely that "evenutally" we are all going to return to God.

I can't come to agreement with this statement Libs. The Bible does seem clear that there will be those who eternally separated from God. I don't see how progress would possible in that respect.

I think man wants to put too many restrictions and limitations on God and his ability to bring us all back to the fold. And, I really don't think that possibility limits agency, at all, because it's kind of like the old adage (in reverse), give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself. Give man enough time, and he'll eventually "get it". (Women, of course, get it the first time )

Bold mine, I don't intend to try and "restrict" or "limit" God from something. However, I think God has informed us through the Bible that some will be separated from Him eternally. I don't think this implicates a person has to actively be present to be eternally separated. If they once existed, but then no longer exist, this too would be eternal separation.

The Bible also declares the God wishes none would perish.

I don't think these statements are conflicting or that one should be taken in prevalence over the other. I think if you look at them together, the message seems clear that God doesn't seem to be able to keep some people from perishing.

There must be a good reason God can't save us all. IMO if there are restrictions on what He can/can't do, I think such restrictions are self imposed by God Himself and relate to our free will.

I don't think it is in God's nature to make people love him.

[Mudcat]

I think that Rob Bell is a closet Mormon. Evangelicals are right to be suspicious of him!

If he is a closet Mormon, I wished he would come out and quit trying to distort Evangelical views.

[Hughes]

“Anytime someone makes you feel guilty about how you are living, that is part of the old system (pre-Christ).” –Rob Bell

Sounds like a Mormon? I don't think so. He sounds like a post modernest.

"The Christian faith is mysterious to the core. It is about things and beings that ultimately can’t be put into words. Language fails. And if we do definitively put God into words, we have at that very moment made God something God is not” –Rob Bell (Velvet Elvis, p. 32)

Source

[Libs]

Yeah.. If love doesn't win, God will Zap you into nothingness after your dead is a bit wordy and probably to direct. I am thinking Disintegrate the Hate might be better. It is shorter, plus it rhymes.. so I can also make rap song about it. ;)

There ya go! lol

I can't come to agreement with this statement Libs. The Bible does seem clear that there will be those who eternally separated from God. I don't see how progress would possible in that respect.

Yes, I can see how it could appear that way, for sure. I have to say, up front, I'm not a Bible literalist.

Bold mine, I don't intend to try and "restrict" or "limit" God from something. However, I think God has informed us through the Bible that some will be separated from Him eternally. I don't think this implicates a person has to actively be present to be eternally separated. If they once existed, but then no longer exist, this too would be eternal separation.

So, you believe that the "separation" means the person/soul just ceases to exist? I, honestly, don't know, but I hope that is not true. That doesn't seem much better than burning in some eternal hell fire. (Okay, maybe, a "little" better...but, not much). I just don't see either of those, as a possibility, coming from a loving God.

The Bible also declares the God wishes none would perish.

Yes, Rob Bell mentions this often.

I don't think these statements are conflicting or that one should be taken in prevalence over the other. I think if you look at them together, the message seems clear that God doesn't seem to be able to keep some people from perishing.

There must be a good reason God can't save us all. IMO if there are restrictions on what He can/can't do, I think such restrictions are self imposed by God Himself and relate to our free will.

I don't think it is in God's nature to make people love him.

First of all, I think it's highly unlikely that a God who created the universe, would be incapable of keeping us from perishing. Again, really and truthfully, I know very little, so please bear in mind that I am speculating about possibilities (based on things God has told us, through fallible men)...and, frankly, on my own gut instincts, some of which may be from the Spirit.

God doesn't have to take away our agency, in order to save us. I think we all have a built-in, natural attraction, to God and goodness...we are attracted to the light. I know most Evangelicals believe exactly the opposite, but my observations and intuition tell me differently. That doesn't mean any of us will act "perfectly" or even be good all the time, but I think goodness does get our attention and we are attracted to it. So, what if this is true, and this is why we will all eventually end up back with God? Not because he controls our will and "makes us", but because we have this natural attraction to him (to our Father, our Maker) that, eventually, draws us to him (could be over a very long period of time). I think it's even possible that we will continue our journey after physical death.

[zerinus]

If he is a closet Mormon, I wished he would come out and quit trying to distort Evangelical views.

That was a tongue-in-cheek remark. I don't know if he is a closet Mormon or not; but I think he is trying to steal our clothes!

If you can't beat them, . . . steal their clothes! But I think he is being too clever. Evangelicalism is too broke to be fixed that way.

[Libs]

Rob Bell is a Progressive Christian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity

[Rivers]

Those doctrines are more than "speculation". They are false. There is no such thing as spiritual "decomposition".

How do you know?

[zerinus]

How do you know?

I just do!

[Kingsson]

Three words:

Charity NEVER faileth.

(God doesn't fail.)

Because God loves everyone,[With great sadness] He will have to except people choice of going to hell for all eternity.

But with great joy he will receive all people who except His free offer of salvation through faith, Repentance and the rebirth, And give them eternal life of joy. He is saying You chose where you will go.

[Kingsson]

Where do we as LDS stand on this universalism issue? On one hand we tell people that pretty much everyone minus the sons of perdition will be saved to heaven and yet on the other hand LDS doctrine only teaches that the Celestial kingdom is "heaven" as spoken of in the scriptures. We also have an understanding that on one hand the sons of perdition suffer forever yet on the other it is only for a specific time. We also confuse language found in section 19 by not associating it properly with section 76. It is all really quite confusing.

Personally I believe that no hell lasts forever for anyone. That seems ridiculous. I see hell as a temporary place that potentially can last forever (as a physical place) but that individuals entering that place will have an end at some finite point in their suffering.

I also believe that God never stops working to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of his children. He will continue on as long as possible to save every last one of his children into the kingdom where he resides.

So you think you know more then Jesus. It is what people believe and think thet gets them into trouble. Don't believe your own thoughts, Believe what Jesus said in the Bible. And that is people will spend eternity in torment. The Unregenerate person who has rejected Jesus will go to hell untill the judgment day, Then he will be cast into the lake of fire, FOREVER. AND THAT IS WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.

[urroner]

So you think you know more then Jesus. It is what people believe and think thet gets them into trouble. Don't believe your own thoughts,

So if I can't believe what I think, then I can't believe my own thoughts when I think that I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. What a dilemma you have imposed upon me.

Believe what Jesus said in the Bible. And that is people will spend eternity in torment. The Unregenerate person who has rejected Jesus will go to hell untill the judgment day, Then he will be cast into the lake of fire, FOREVER. AND THAT IS WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.

Is that what the Bible teaches or is that what you believe the Bible teaches?

[mercyngrace]

Because God loves everyone,[With great sadness] He will have to except people choice of going to hell for all eternity.

But with great joy he will receive all people who except His free offer of salvation through faith, Repentance and the rebirth, And give them eternal life of joy. He is saying You chose where you will go.

If you are locked in a dark room and in an effort to escape, feel your way to the closet door rather than the exit, would infinite and everlasting punishment for your error be just?

Paul acknowledged that we all presently see through a glass darkly and the Bible says of God, "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

How could a just God, who demands just weights and measures for the smallest of transactions (Deut. 25) be considered "just and right" if he doles out infinite damnation for finite errors committed by one in the dark?

[Hughes]

If you are locked in a dark room and in an effort to escape, feel your way to the closet door rather than the exit, would infinite and everlasting punishment for your error be just?

Paul acknowledged that we all presently see through a glass darkly and the Bible says of God, "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

How could a just God, who demands just weights and measures for the smallest of transactions (Deut. 25) be considered "just and rght" if he doles out infinite damnation for finite errors committed by one in the dark?

Infinite damnation isn't given based on finite errors made in the dark. Rather, damnation is what people choose when they reject the light given to them.

John 3:19 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

[Mudcat]

Yes, I can see how it could appear that way, for sure. I have to say, up front, I'm not a Bible literalist.

Given your view, I don't see how you could be. There a certainly points in which I veer from literalism as well, but there are limits to it and it relates more to the OT than the NT. In regards to the NT, if the Bible reports that Jesus said "X", then I do think it is much more likely he said X than did not say X. Thus, I literally believe Jesus said "X".

Where a nonliteral viewpoint may come in on my part, is when I try to understand what Jesus meant when he said X. Was it literal, allegorical, figurative ... that sort of thing.

The thing I find troubling, is that if you take all of Christ's statements on the matter and interpret them in the broadest fashion. I still don't see a way that this element of eternal separation from God isn't being represented here.

I know your not a philosopher or something, but given what Christ has said, I am wondering how you reach the conclusions you have. IMO, such a view is a bit off the map... or at least if it is on the map it isn't a place I seem to be able to get to. Please don't take that the wrong way. But I am at loss for you actually interpret Christ's statements on the matter and also hold the view you do.

What do you think I am missing here?

So, you believe that the "separation" means the person/soul just ceases to exist? I, honestly, don't know, but I hope that is not true. That doesn't seem much better than burning in some eternal hell fire. (Okay, maybe, a "little" better...but, not much). I just don't see either of those, as a possibility, coming from a loving God.

To be specific, I believe this eternal separation occurs immediately after judgement.

Yes, I can see that is an issue for you. The alternative view you seem to hold is that ultimately at some point God persuades all to come into a loving a relationship with Him. But have you taken into account what that actually means?

It has it's own issues. I don't think God could be "persuasive" in the sense that he literally changes a persons mind, because that removes elements of choice. His manner of persuasion would have to be evidential.

My thought would be that, if a person who had heard the Gospel, been called by the Spirit and so forth here on Earth and rejected it, would need more evidence to make a decision for God somewhere down the line. Some might require more than others. For some, watching the proceedings of Christ's death, burial and resurrection might not be enough. Regardless lets say that since he is God, He can fulfill any evidential claims to the point a person is satisfied that God is who He is.

Knowing who He is, isn't the point of it all though. "..the devils also believe, and tremble."

Choosing to love Him is the point.

If the operating assumption of a Universalism is that at some point all that God has made will love Him. Then there is no actual choice in matter. The reason I say so, is that God would have created no being without an inherent capacity to love him, for this to be false.

In short, given Universalism, we have no choice but to love God.

You may be fine with that statement, but if you are, I hope you realize that you are a determinist and your view is actually incompatible with freedom of the will.

You point to this later in your post when you say. " I think we all have a built-in, natural attraction, to God and goodness"

God doesn't have to take away our agency, in order to save us. I think we all have a built-in, natural attraction, to God and goodness...we are attracted to the light. I know most Evangelicals believe exactly the opposite, but my observations and intuition tell me differently. That doesn't mean any of us will act "perfectly" or even be good all the time, but I think goodness does get our attention and we are attracted to it. So, what if this is true, and this is why we will all eventually end up back with God? Not because he controls our will and "makes us", but because we have this natural attraction to him (to our Father, our Maker) that, eventually, draws us to him (could be over a very long period of time). I think it's even possible that we will continue our journey after physical death.

Bold mine, the only way I think this would occur would be to remove the notion of God knowing what is going to happen next aka omniscience. It's the only bypass around determinism. It certainly makes prophecy, future promises and so forth a challenge.

A God who is loving, saves all because we are all programmed to love him eventually, and is ignorant of the future. But is also smart enough to make it all work out in the end.

I won't spend time expanding the difficulty of that issue.

But the other side is determinism.

If so, we are automatons. Just meat robots, so to speak.

.......

Regarding Universalism, I don't see the issue going, much in other direction. You may think eternal separation/hell is problematic. I don't see the alternative as desirable.

[Mudcat]

If you are locked in a dark room and in an effort to escape, feel your way to the closet door rather than the exit, would infinite and everlasting punishment for your error be just?

Paul acknowledged that we all presently see through a glass darkly and the Bible says of God, "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

How could a just God, who demands just weights and measures for the smallest of transactions (Deut. 25) be considered "just and rght" if he doles out infinite damnation for finite errors committed by one in the dark?

MnG,

The problem with the analogy offered, is that if we are truly locked in a dark room, so to speak. Well it is God who has locked us in it. I don't think he has.

Sure Paul said we did see darkly, but this doesn't mean we don't have access to light. He also said, in Ephesians 5:8 "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:"

Bold mine MnG. I think it's a false dichotomy.

Regards,

Mudcat

[Libs]

Given your view, I don't see how you could be. There a certainly points in which I veer from literalism as well, but there are limits to it and it relates more to the OT than the NT. In regards to the NT, if the Bible reports that Jesus said "X", then I do think it is much more likely he said X than did not say X. Thus, I literally believe Jesus said "X".

Where a nonliteral viewpoint may come in on my part, is when I try to understand what Jesus meant when he said X. Was it literal, allegorical, figurative ... that sort of thing.

The thing I find troubling, is that if you take all of Christ's statements on the matter and interpret them in the broadest fashion. I still don't see a way that this element of eternal separation from God isn't being represented here.

I know your not a philosopher or something, but given what Christ has said, I am wondering how you reach the conclusions you have. IMO, such a view is a bit off the map... or at least if it is on the map it isn't a place I seem to be able to get to. Please don't take that the wrong way. But I am at loss for you actually interpret Christ's statements on the matter and also hold the view you do.

What do you think I am missing here?

Simply a matter of interpretation, I would imagine. And, I am probably more a philosopher than a religionist, at this point. You didn't give any specific scripture to discuss, so I'll just say that I know there is a lot scripture in the Bible that points towards God wanting all to be saved. Can he save us all? I certainly believe so. I believe that is his intention.

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

To be specific, I believe this eternal separation occurs immediately after judgement.

Yes, I can see that is an issue for you. The alternative view you seem to hold is that ultimately at some point God persuades all to come into a loving a relationship with Him. But have you taken into account what that actually means?

I don't think God persuades in the way that you are perceiving (if I'm reading you correctly). I think we are naturally drawn to the light...eventually. Not saying we don't go through stages of hiding in the dark, but I don't think any of us are happy there, and will eventually be drawn to the light, because it's good and beautiful and ultimately irresistible, and everything that makes us happy. Not because God is going to strong-arm us there. I don't think there will be a need for that. And it's just not how God works, IMO.

It has it's own issues. I don't think God could be "persuasive" in the sense that he literally changes a persons mind, because that removes elements of choice. His manner of persuasion would have to be evidential.

YES, exactly. We will know, as we glimpse his glory...and the more we "see" the more we will want that life with him.

My thought would be that, if a person who had heard the Gospel, been called by the Spirit and so forth here on Earth and rejected it, would need more evidence to make a decision for God somewhere down the line. Some might require more than others. For some, watching the proceedings of Christ's death, burial and resurrection might not be enough. Regardless lets say that since he is God, He can fulfill any evidential claims to the point a person is satisfied that God is who He is.

Yes, just like doubting Thomas, some of us need more proof...and God is willing to give it.

Knowing who He is, isn't the point of it all though. "..the devils also believe, and tremble."

Choosing to love Him is the point.

I agree. I think that will be the "final choice" for all of us, once we really and truly know God. How could we not love him, once he reveals himself and we see him in all his glory?

If the operating assumption of a Universalism is that at some point all that God has made will love Him. Then there is no actual choice in matter. The reason I say so, is that God would have created no being without an inherent capacity to love him, for this to be false.

In short, given Universalism, we have no choice but to love God.

You may be fine with that statement, but if you are, I hope you realize that you are a determinist and your view is actually incompatible with freedom of the will.

You point to this later in your post when you say. " I think we all have a built-in, natural attraction, to God and goodness"

Bold mine, the only way I think this would occur would be to remove the notion of God knowing what is going to happen next aka omniscience. It's the only bypass around determinism. It certainly makes prophecy, future promises and so forth a challenge.

A God who is loving, saves all because we are all programmed to love him eventually, and is ignorant of the future. But is also smart enough to make it all work out in the end.

I won't spend time expanding the difficulty of that issue.

But the other side is determinism.

If so, we are automatons. Just meat robots, so to speak.

.......

Regarding Universalism, I don't see the issue going, much in other direction. You may think eternal separation/hell is problematic. I don't see the alternative as desirable.

Oh, I think some people will spend time in a hell of their own making. I just don't think it will be eternal (and it won't be because God "requires it").

As for agency, I do believe we have a large degree of free will...and I do believe we create our own hells, here on earth and probably in the afterlife, as well. It's very possible, maybe even probable, that people will spend some time in those hells of their own making, now and even after death. I just don't believe it will be eternal. I think God's door is always open and we will eventually "get it" and gravitate towards him.

[mercyngrace]

MnG,

The problem with the analogy offered, is that if we are truly locked in a dark room, so to speak. Well it is God who has locked us in it. I don't think he has.

Sure Paul said we did see darkly, but this doesn't mean we don't have access to light. He also said, in Ephesians 5:8 "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:"

Bold mine MnG. I think it's a false dichotomy.

Regards,

Mudcat

Mudcat,

I would say that Adam and Eve put us in the darkened room. But I'd also argue that passing through the darkness is a developmental stage necessary for spiritual maturation. I don't consider it a bad thing.

Of course, you are right, we have access to the light in varying degrees. For God to be just, our post-mortal inheritance has to take into account the limitations of our earthly experience. Can God be just if He damns the Asian man who lived in 1000 b.c. and never knew Christ? Or my neighbor's 7 year old who died in an accident before being saved? How about the countless people who die in disease ridden squalor in Africa before receiving their airlifted Bible and rice packet from well-meaning American Christians?

What allowance does mainstream Christianity make for these people who live out their lives in, by our standard, the dark?

[mercyngrace]

Infinite damnation isn't given based on finite errors made in the dark. Rather, damnation is what people choose when they reject the light given to them.

John 3:19 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

I agree with you, Hughes. My only contention is that few, if any, will reject the light when it is presented to them in an unmistakeable way.

[Kingsson]

If you are locked in a dark room and in an effort to escape, feel your way to the closet door rather than the exit, would infinite and everlasting punishment for your error be just?

Paul acknowledged that we all presently see through a glass darkly and the Bible says of God, "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

How could a just God, who demands just weights and measures for the smallest of transactions (Deut. 25) be considered "just and rght" if he doles out infinite damnation for finite errors committed by one in the dark?

You either agree with the Bible or you don't. God said there is a hell for those who reject Him and His Son Jesus.

God love everyone and doesn't want anyone going to he,, THATS WHY HE SENT JESUS. But if people are follish enough to reject such a great offer and chose to go to hell instead of heaven, Then with great sadness God will give them what they have chosen.

We are not robots, We have free choice and God won't violate our freewill.

Paul Did say we see through a glass darkly, But he also said, WE KNOW IN PART, God reveals to us the things we need to know.

Paul aslo said in 1 Cor 2: 9--12, That God reveals things to us.

But even without the Spirit of God revealing things to us, We have the Bible word of God that tells us what we need to know, And one of the things we need to know is, There is a hell waiting for all those who aren't born again.

[Hughes]

I agree with you, Hughes. My only contention is that few, if any, will reject the light when it is presented to them in an unmistakeable way.

We can hope. The conundrum is the one third of the angels that fell along with Lucifer. Why would a being reject God when he has seen and experienced his presence and power?

[mercyngrace]

You either agree with the Bible or you don't. God said there is a hell for those who reject Him and His Son Jesus.

God love everyone and doesn't want anyone going to he,, THATS WHY HE SENT JESUS. But if people are follish enough to reject such a great offer and chose to go to hell instead of heaven, Then with great sadness God will give them what they have chosen.

We are not robots, We have free choice and God won't violate our freewill.

Paul Did say we see through a glass darkly, But he also said, WE KNOW IN PART, God reveals to us the things we need to know.

Paul aslo said in 1 Cor 2: 9--12, That God reveals things to us.

But even without the Spirit of God revealing things to us, We have the Bible word of God that tells us what we need to know, And one of the things we need to know is, There is a hell waiting for all those who aren't born again.

It is not a violation of agency to save all. It merely suggests an eventual unforced surrender. You know like "every knee will bow and every tongue confess". But hey, you either agree with the Bible or you don't.

edit: Notice that Paul is talking to fellow Christians when he writes that we see through a glass darkly but we know in part. If we who know Christ see only in part, how much darkness hinders those who have yet to experience His love?