The Gathering

[Avatar4321]

I've been pondering the Gathering. Specifically how Joseph Smith mentioned that the Gathering would be as vital for our salvation in this day as it was for Noah in building the Ark. I've been thinking of why that's so. And It's made me wonder if I've had too narrow a view of what the Gathering is.

Is it just about being coming together out of the world? Or is it also about organizing ourselves in a way to influence good in the world and fight back against Satan's forces in the world. Is it about becoming a real community where we can teach each other practical skills and feast spiritually? I am more and more convinced the Lord wants us much more active than we have been in the world. Not just in preaching the Gospel but sharing who we are and what we've become with others by serving them. I think we are going to need this in order to survive what is coming as a community. Could this be part of why the gathering is so important? Because we need each other to survive what's coming?

I've obviously got a lot of questions on this. Just started thinking about it like a day or so ago. Im still ironing out details so I figured Id see what other things. But I think there may be something to it.

[Anijen]

I agree there is going to be some trials ahead. As far as the gathering, it could have many levels. I for one think the most simplest way to understand it is with baptism, which when we become members awe are taking part in the gathering.

[Avatar4321]

I agree there is going to be some trials ahead. As far as the gathering, it could have many levels. I for one think the most simplest way to understand it is with baptism, which when we become members awe are taking part in the gathering.

Yet. And Baptism is an ordinance. An ordinance is designed to organize us. It seems to have the same theme here.

[Arkholt]

I don't think there's any reason to think we're going to be gathered to a particular location. That's quite an outdated idea, and we've been told to "gather" where we live. I think the idea is more along the lines of gathering the "lost sheep" into the fold.

[SeattleGrunge]

I don't think there's any reason to think we're going to be gathered to a particular location. That's quite an outdated idea, and we've been told to "gather" where we live. I think the idea is more along the lines of gathering the "lost sheep" into the fold.

I think Arkholt's is all to common and incorrect or naive. No, we don't currently gather to a central location. There are 3-4 versions of our gathering. 1-initial gatherings to one primary location (Independence, Navoo, SLC). 2-gatherings to our stakes as we currently do 3-potential gatherings to local areas during the often prophesied great tribulation 4-some to most to all gathering to New Jerusalem when that time comes.

It's hard to pinpoint the last two, but because they aren't focused on now doesn't mean they aren't in our future anymore.

[Avatar4321]

I don't think there's any reason to think we're going to be gathered to a particular location. That's quite an outdated idea, and we've been told to "gather" where we live. I think the idea is more along the lines of gathering the "lost sheep" into the fold.

Again, my interest in this was peaked by the statements from Joseph Smith associating the Gathering of Israel to being as vital as the Ark was to Noah. I don't know the fulness of what this entails, but it leads me to believe that there is more to this doctrine.

[Arkholt]

I think Arkholt's is all to common and incorrect or naive. No, we don't currently gather to a central location. There are 3-4 versions of our gathering. 1-initial gatherings to one primary location (Independence, Navoo, SLC). 2-gatherings to our stakes as we currently do 3-potential gatherings to local areas during the often prophesied great tribulation 4-some to most to all gathering to New Jerusalem when that time comes.

It's hard to pinpoint the last two, but because they aren't focused on now doesn't mean they aren't in our future anymore.

Fine, so I guess it's naive now to disbelieve something that is in no way scriptural or doctrinal.

Even if it was, what would all of us gathering to a particular location accomplish? What's the point of all (currently) 14 million of us gathering to New Jerusalem?

Again, my interest in this was peaked by the statements from Joseph Smith associating the Gathering of Israel to being as vital as the Ark was to Noah. I don't know the fulness of what this entails, but it leads me to believe that there is more to this doctrine.

I think it basically means that the gathering of Israel is the work of our dispensation, just as building the ark and beginning the new civilization was for Noah. It's just as important as leading the Israelites out of Egypt was to Moses. It means it's the mission that the Church should be focused on as we prepare for the Second Coming.

[SeattleGrunge]

Fine, so I guess it's naive now to disbelieve something that is in no way scriptural or doctrinal.

naive not to know that there are scriptures and doctrine that do back this up. I don't mean that in a negative way to you, as I would say the large majority of the general membership is naive to this subject.

Articles of Faith #10

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent;

By and by the nations will be broken up on account of their wickedness, the Latter-day Saints are not going to move upon them with their little army, they will destroy themselves with their wickedness and immorality. They will contend and quarrel with one another, state after state and nation after nation, until they are broken up, and thousands, tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands will undoubtedly come and seek protection at the hands of the servants of God…We have received revelation and, accordingly, we are here in these mountain valleys, and we are going to stay here. We shall cultivate our farms, and lay foundation for a time when the nations shall be broken up. Multitudes will then flee to these valleys of the mountains for safety, and we shall extend protection to them. You may say, shall you require them to be baptized and to become Latter-day Saints? Not by any means. I meet with gentlemen from time to time, from different portions of the Union. I never offer them my religious views unless they seek them. I am not anxious to push my religious views upon any man. I will do them all the good I can. (Elder Lorenzo Snow, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, pp 300-309)

D&C 103:15-18

15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;

16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.

17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

D&C 45:66-71

66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;

67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.

68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy.

D&C 61:14-16

14 Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters.

15 Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters.

16 And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart.

D&C 84:2-4

2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.

3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

PoGP, Moses 7:62

And righteousness will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten; his resurrection from the dead; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; and righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.

Zion must be redeemed before the coming of Christ, the temple must be built upon the consecrated spot, the cloud and glory of the Lord rest upon it, and the Lamanites, many of them, brought in, and they must build up the New Jerusalem. (JD, Orson Pratt 3:18-19)

Q: When will the temple be built at Independence?

A: Right after the great tribulation is over.

Q: What do you mean by that?

A: A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be a smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates, and peace all over.

Q: Will you live and see those things?

A: It was said to us, that the second great work should commence when nearly all the witnesses to the first plates had passed away, so I may live and see those things take place.

This conversation was mostly written down word for word half an hour after the interview with David Whitmer, esq., who will recognize it as his words, and I send it that the public may form a better idea about this truly remarkable man. (interview by Dr. Poulson with David Whitmer, printed in the Deseret News on Friday, August 16, 1878)

When speaking about the New Jerusalem in relation to the prior gathering to Salt Lake City by others not of our religion, Elder Lorenzo Snow said the following, “You may say, shall you require them to be baptized and to become Latter-day Saints? Not by any means. I meet with gentlemen from time to time, from different portions of the Union. I never offer them my religious views unless they seek them. I am not anxious to push my religious views upon any man. I will do them all the good I can.” (Elder Lorenzo Snow, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, pp 300-309)

“Thus, clearly, the Lord has placed the responsibility for directing the work of gathering in the hands of the leaders of the Church to whom he will reveal his will where and when such gatherings would take place in the future. It would be well—before the frightening events concerning the fulfillment of all God’s promises and predictions are upon us, that the Saints in every land prepare themselves and look forward to the instruction that shall come to them from the First Presidency of this Church as to where they shall be gathered and not be disturbed in their feelings until such instruction is given to them as it is revealed by the Lord to the proper authority.” (Elder Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, Apr. 1948, p. 55.)