Atlas Shrugged

[thesometimesaint]

WalkerW:

The discussion is about the economic rationalizations for the perseverance of Americanized legal chattel slavery into the mid 19th Century.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The opposite must be true then, I wouldn't think anyone other than one with a satanist bent would like the movie or book. *satanism and rand's philosophy go virtually hand in hand

Wonderful insult.

[ERayR]

The opposite must be true then, I wouldn't think anyone other than one with a satanist bent would like the movie or book. *satanism and rand's philosophy go virtually hand in hand

Moses 4:1

And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

Satanism denies personal responsibility and espouses collective salvation or in temporal parlance, take from the haves (by governmental coercion) and give to the have not's (social programs). Who's philosophy does that bring to mind? Hint, It doesn't sound like Rand's.

[frankenstein]

Wonderful insult.

my comment about satanism and rand - both philosophies are very similar , though atlas shrugged came out in the 1950's and anton lavey founded satanism in the late 1960's - was meant to be just as ridiculous and absurd as paharon comment.

so called "liberal" ideas can be found in atlas shrugged, and so can satanism. atlas shrugged is a railing against "liberal" ideas, however unitentionally atlas shrugged and rands philosophy is very similar to satanism; so if a liberal wouldn't like the book/rand because of what the book/rand rails against, a satanist would like the book for what the book/rand promotes i.e. selfishness; love only those who deserve it; god is a farce and belief in god is sign of weakness (rand said this herself in a interview with mike wallace or phil donahue)

so my comment is no more insulting than paharons comment.

-----------------------------

eraye, are you familiar with the satanism founded by anton lavey, does anton lavey espouse the satanism you have put forth?

look up the "9 statements of satanism" one can easily find rands philosophy in satanism.

[Walden]

The movie is out today and I have to say as a fan of the book I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was. They story was updated but true to the heart of the book. Although no doubt being familiar with the characters may have filled in what non-readers of the book might not get. What is even more amazing is that they did this movie on such a low budget and yet it doesn't look low budget, at least to me.

The acting I thought was superb and the cinematography beautiful. I recommend it to anyone who loves freedom and individuality, whether you've read the book or not. My sister did not read the book and just said "Wow." Now she wants to read the book. I'm wanting to read it again as it's been a few years and it's amazing how timeless it is.

It looks as if this movie is headed for irrelavance, according to this morning's LA Times article. In the article it is stated that "the producer of the Ayn Rand adaptation said Tuesday that he is reconsidering his plans to make Parts 2 and 3 because of scathing reviews and flagging box office returns for the film."

You can read the rest of the story here, but it looks as if this movie series is over before it ever really began.

[Deborah]

It looks as if this movie is headed for irrelavance, according to this morning's LA Times article.

Very sad because those who saw it will be very disappointed. I wish everyone could just see it because they will be astounded at how closely it looks like our political scene today.

[thesometimesaint]

Deborah:

Closer would be Lord of the Flies.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Very sad because those who saw it will be very disappointed. I wish everyone could just see it because they will be astounded at how closely it looks like our political scene today.

I can't give rep points so... :good: :good: :good:

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

Probably not in the way that was intended.

The author of the Republicans’ new budget plan to gut Medicare and Medicaid, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), has said Rand is the reason he entered politics, and requires his staff to read her work. Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) have both declared themselves devotees of her writing. Conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has his law clerks watch the film adaptation of Rand’s book The Fountainhead. She’s also received accolades from right-wing pundits Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, John Stossel, and Andrew Napolitano.

During her lifetime, Rand advocated “the virtue of selfishness,” declared altruism to be “evil,” opposed Medicare and all forms of government support for the middle-class and the poor, and condemned Christianity for advocating love and compassion for the less fortunate:

Rand also dismissed the feminist movement as a “false” and “phony” issue, said a female commander in chief would be “unspeakable,” characterized Arabs as “almost totally primitive savages,” and called government efforts to aid the handicapped and educate “subnormal children” an attempt to “bring everybody to the level of the handicapped.”

[Deborah]

The author of the Republicans’ new budget plan to gut Medicare and Medicaidren....

In the first place you really need to tell the whole story. People 55 and older would not have anything changed. Others would gradually be able to have their own retirement plans and much more autonomy in structuring them.

You also spew out insults by deliberately distorting and taking out of context what is advocated while totally overlooking the primary message of responsibility, self-reliance and not forcing anyone to do what you want but letting everyone be free to accomplish his own goals and dreams.

[WalkerW]

Rand is a romantic. Someday I plan to move beyond her philosophical writings and actually read her fiction. I'd probably like the latter more than the former.

Like I said, I think the "selfishness" mantra is rhetorically irresponsible and an inaccurate reflection of the market system.

[Deborah]

Rand is a romantic. Someday I plan to move beyond her philosophical writings and actually read her fiction.

I have to agree. I don't like her philosophical writings so much; I enjoy her fiction because I like stories of people overcoming great odds and succeeding.

As to the selfishness mantra, I think it was overused and in fact doesn't impart what she intended. Self-confidence, self-reliance, self-esteem but not selfishness in the strict sense of the word. Her characters in fact weren't as selfish as the word implies or as it was used. For example in Anthem, the main charter's goal when he found out the truth about their society was to go back and rescue all those others he felt would listen and who were suffering under the totalitarian society.

[thesometimesaint]

Deborah:

Not according to Rand herself.

Ayn Rand announced that the world was divided between a small minority of Supermen who are productive and “the naked, twisted, mindless figure of the human Incompetent” who, like the Leninists, try to feed off them. He is “mud to be ground underfoot, fuel to be burned.” It is evil to show kindness to these “lice”: The “only virtue” is “selfishness.”

She meant it. Her diaries from that time, while she worked as a receptionist and an extra, lay out the Nietzschean mentality that underpins all her later writings. The newspapers were filled for months with stories about serial killer called William Hickman, who kidnapped a 12-year-old girl called Marion Parker from her junior high school, raped her, and dismembered her body, which he sent mockingly to the police in pieces. Rand wrote great stretches of praise for him, saying he represented “the amazing picture of a man with no regard whatsoever for all that a society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. A man who really stands alone, in action and in soul. … Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should.” She called him “a brilliant, unusual, exceptional boy,” shimmering with “immense, explicit egotism.” Rand had only one regret: “A strong man can eventually trample society under its feet. That boy [Hickman] was not strong enough.”

[Deborah]

From FB site on the movie: Mike Hall's link to The Hollywood Reporter:

"The critics are "revitalizing me with their outrageousness," John Aglialoro, who spent $10 million of his own money on the film, tells THR.

The man who says he spent $10 million of his... own money to bring Atlas Shrugged: Part 1 to the big screen vowed Wednesday to go through with his plans to make the next two installments, even though critics hate the movie and business at movie theaters has fallen off a cliff."

[thesometimesaint]

Deborah:

Looks like he'll get to pay for the lose of money by the theaters that play it.

Not many in this world deliberately try to lose money. But it is his money, and he can spend it how he wants.

[ERayR]

Deborah:

Looks like he'll get to pay for the lose of money by the theaters that play it.

Not many in this world deliberately try to lose money. But it is his money, and he can spend it how he wants.

And that is Rand's point exactly.

[thesometimesaint]

ERayR:

Money is a powerful motivator in this world, or a someone once said:

"You can buy anything in this world with money".

[WalkerW]

Deborah:

Not according to Rand herself.

Ayn Rand announced that the world was divided between a small minority of Supermen who are productive and “the naked, twisted, mindless figure of the human Incompetent” who, like the Leninists, try to feed off them. He is “mud to be ground underfoot, fuel to be burned.” It is evil to show kindness to these “lice”: The “only virtue” is “selfishness.”

She meant it. Her diaries from that time, while she worked as a receptionist and an extra, lay out the Nietzschean mentality that underpins all her later writings. The newspapers were filled for months with stories about serial killer called William Hickman, who kidnapped a 12-year-old girl called Marion Parker from her junior high school, raped her, and dismembered her body, which he sent mockingly to the police in pieces. Rand wrote great stretches of praise for him, saying he represented “the amazing picture of a man with no regard whatsoever for all that a society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. A man who really stands alone, in action and in soul. … Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should.” She called him “a brilliant, unusual, exceptional boy,” shimmering with “immense, explicit egotism.” Rand had only one regret: “A strong man can eventually trample society under its feet. That boy [Hickman] was not strong enough.”

Cite your sources. Especially when you quote them verbatim.

[WalkerW]

For more on Hickman and Rand, see Chris Matthew Sciabara, "A Renaissance in Rand Scholarship," Reason Papers 23 (Fall 1998).

[WalkerW]

Frankly, everyone just needs to stop freaking out about Ayn Rand.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa:

Probably not in the way that was intended.

The author of the Republicans’ new budget plan to gut Medicare and Medicaid, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), has said Rand is the reason he entered politics, and requires his staff to read her work. Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) have both declared themselves devotees of her writing. Conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has his law clerks watch the film adaptation of Rand’s book The Fountainhead. She’s also received accolades from right-wing pundits Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, John Stossel, and Andrew Napolitano.

During her lifetime, Rand advocated “the virtue of selfishness,” declared altruism to be “evil,” opposed Medicare and all forms of government support for the middle-class and the poor, and condemned Christianity for advocating love and compassion for the less fortunate:

Rand also dismissed the feminist movement as a “false” and “phony” issue, said a female commander in chief would be “unspeakable,” characterized Arabs as “almost totally primitive savages,” and called government efforts to aid the handicapped and educate “subnormal children” an attempt to “bring everybody to the level of the handicapped.”

CFR.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Rand is a romantic. Someday I plan to move beyond her philosophical writings and actually read her fiction. I'd probably like the latter more than the former.

Like I said, I think the "selfishness" mantra is rhetorically irresponsible and an inaccurate reflection of the market system.

Did she eve claim it was not fiction, most novels are. This does not make it less relevant.

[Deborah]

Frankly, everyone just needs to stop freaking out about Ayn Rand.

I totally agree. Just enjoy her novels for the stories about people triumphing over great odds and fighting for their individual rights. I never took her philosophy so seriously that I became a fanatic. I just love her stories.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I totally agree. Just enjoy her novels for the stories about people triumphing over great odds and fighting for their individual rights. I never took her philosophy so seriously that I became a fanatic. I just love her stories.

Again

[frankenstein]

CFR.

a rather tedious cfr.

but the statements you want CFR are generally true. Google will help you find the information you are looking for.

paul ryan ayn rand

rand paul ayn rand see first video link

ron paul ayn rand

clarence thomas fountainhead

If you want to know what rand was about look up her interview with Mike Wallace and look up her interviews with Phil Donahue - both are on Youtube. She admits wanting to destroy religion, and God. She admits that weak persons do not deserve love. She admits that one should only show love to those who deserve to be shown love (love to those who deserve it is a central theme in satanism)