Atlas Shrugged

[WalkerW]

I liked Farenheit 451 as a stand alone movie. The acting was excellent and I have always appreciated the actors themselves.

I just felt they weren't given much to do.

It is tough, very tough to make a good adaption.

I agree.

I cringe when I think about what they will do with Ender's Game one day.

Amen.

I try to look at the movie outside of my expectations for the book.

I judge them as separate entities. Some things I think are best left untranslated from the book to screen. I found Fahrenheit 451 the book engaging. I found the movie a bore. And I saw the movie first.

I think otherwise you will always be disappointed.

Most definitely.

[Deborah]

Rand preaches the greatest good is selfishness, selfishness is evil; she preaches against religion i.e. Christ, she is against Christ. Therefore she is against Christ and by instruction of the Book Of Mormon we may know with a perfect knowledge Atlas Shrugged is of the Devil, who leadeth by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.

I've never read anything where she preaches against Christ. Certainly she didn't like organized religion and found it hypocritical. I think it's hard to preach against something one never knew. She grew up an atheist in an atheist country.

In relation to selfishness, I've always found this scripture interesting: Matthew 22:39 "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." In order to teach others or even help others we have to first fill ourselves. On an airplane the attendants tell you to first put on your oxygen mask and then help others around you. I think Rand's philosophy is the same principle. In being prosperous and successful one is able to help others prosper and take care of themselves. Her heroes would never dream of taking something they hadn't earned and sacrificed their own wealth,not someone else's, to achieve their goals.

[WalkerW]

I plan on reading Jennifer Burns, Goddess of the Market: Ayn Rand and the American Right (Oxford University Press, 2009) in the near future. Her influence in a historical and cultural context interests me more than her philosophies:

I do like what she had to say about rationalization. I've been critical (briefly) of her "selfishness" rhetoric in print.

[Jeff K.]

From my standpoint, I was not a big fan of Ayn Rand because I felt that Adam Smith more properly showed the key issues regarding enlightened self interest with a moral stance. Rand felt that morality was supported by it, Smith felt it was a necessary attribute within the ideal of self interest.

[WalkerW]

From my standpoint, I was not a big fan of Ayn Rand because I felt that Adam Smith more properly showed the key issues regarding enlightened self interest with a moral stance. Rand felt that morality was supported by it, Smith felt it was a necessary attribute within the ideal of self interest.

Agreed. You'll like this then: Deirdre N. McCloskey, "Adam Smith, the Last of the Former Virture Ethicists," History of Political Economy 40:1 (2008).

I've also written on the moral aspects of markets.

[Jeff K.]

I know Smith's writings well, and I do not consider him an economist in the moders sense (as the paper applies to many) but I do consider him a genius philosopher. Ricardo was the modern version that expanded on Smith's philosophical views. You article was too short, I would have enjoyed reading a bit more along those lines and perhaps seeing Brooks's data.

Thanks for sharing.

[Deborah]

I have to confess I was never a fan of Rand because of her economic ideas. I just loved the heroic characters in a world of wimps. I liked the idea of the individual standing against the odds and prevailing in the end.

The movie does a nice job of showing this story without so much emphasis on the philosophical monologues which are fine in a book but would have been tedious on film.

[WalkerW]

I know Smith's writings well, and I do not consider him an economist in the moders sense (as the paper applies to many) but I do consider him a genius philosopher. Ricardo was the modern version that expanded on Smith's philosophical views. You article was too short, I would have enjoyed reading a bit more along those lines and perhaps seeing Brooks's data.

Thanks for sharing.

See the following for a modern application of the ideas of Smith and Ricardo (exchange, specialization, cooperation, etc.):

See Ridley's The Rational Optimist: How Prosperity Evolves (HarperCollins, 2010).

[The Nehor]

And contrary to The Nehor, many of the people seeing the movie never read the book and now want to read it.

They can have my copy.

[Jeff K.]

On one side you have the idea that the individual is a null entity and the individual does not matter. Atlas Shrugged undermines such a philosophy. It isn't for everyone.

[The Nehor]

On one side you have the idea that the individual is a null entity and the individual does not matter. Atlas Shrugged undermines such a philosophy. It isn't for everyone.

I would argue that there are much better philosophies that value the actions and contributions of the individual.

[frankenstein]

An athiest, unless being borne witness cannot deny what they do not know.

I do believe the atheistic philosophy is of the devil, but that does not make one an anti Christ.

And Rand did not persuade anyone "not to do good", she simply felt that enlightened self interest was better than the hand of the government.

Can you show, as Gospel fact, that the verse in Moroni 7 means a person must first have a witness of Christ to deny Christ.

Also, you are mixing subjects in the verse which are separated by a semi-colon.

The first subject in the verse refers to "whosoever persaudeth" the second subject is the Devil.

Rand, via John Gault, persuadeth to do evil - selfishness, to deny all aspects of religion, and not serve God ... a bitter fountain can not bring forth good water.

[Jeff K.]

I am sure you could see Mary, the mother of Christ and claim evil Frankestein, as a man thinketh so is he.

[Jeff K.]

Can you show, as Gospel fact, that the verse in Moroni 7 means a person must first have a witness of Christ to deny Christ.

Also, you are mixing subjects in the verse which are separated by a semi-colon.

The first subject in the verse refers to "whosoever persaudeth" the second subject is the Devil.

Rand, via John Gault, persuadeth to do evil - selfishness, to deny all aspects of religion, and not serve God ... a bitter fountain can not bring forth good water.

How can you deny what you do not know Frankenstein? I cannot be an anti Frankenstein because I do not know you, I do not know your qualities which I must counter to be your antithesis. I cannot be a witness for or against you since I have no true knowledge of who you are or what you possess. In short I cannot be an anti Frankenstein.

[WalkerW]

Rand, via John Gault, persuadeth to do evil - selfishness, to deny all aspects of religion, and not serve God ... a bitter fountain can not bring forth good water.

I can find plenty of "bitter" things in everybody, as well as good things (e.g. Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., etc.).

I suggest watching the interview I posted.

[DH]

It may or may not be a good movie, but I don't take Rand's philosophy as "gospel truth." Some of her points are good, others not so much. You've piqued my interest in the movie, and I may go to see it. However, I'll exercise some "rational self-interest" and wait till it gets to the dollar theater!

[WalkerW]

It may or may not be a good movie, but I don't take Rand's philosophy as "gospel truth." Some of her points are good, others not so much. You've piqued my interest in the movie, and I may go to see it. However, I'll exercise some "rational self-interest" and wait till it gets to the dollar theater!

I think I'm with you.

[Deborah]

However, I'll exercise some "rational self-interest" and wait till it gets to the dollar theater!

Ha, ha. I only go to matinees. Refuse to pay full price.

This is definitely one I'll want to own on DVD.

[Deborah]

How on earth did this get on the subject of anti-Christ. Good grief. It's a novel about what I consider heroic people taking a stand against an oppressive society. It is interesting that many Christians have discovered the novel and are reading it in droves, accepting what's good in it, as we should do all things.

[Deborah]

Frankenstein has brought up an interesting issue about looking at the world and being able to find the good while rejecting that which is in conflict with what we know as right. This has always been my philosophy. Years ago when I was with some friends I pointed to the sky and said look at the beautiful blue sky. One of my friends laughed and said, the whole sky is cloudy and you find the one patch of blue.

I think that God gave us reason and the light of Christ and for members of the church the Gift of the Holy Ghost. It is up to us therefore to discern in everything we see and read and do that which is true vs that which may be of lesser value. Another friend, also a Mormon and a fan of Rand, a few years ago when he found out how much I loved Atlas Shrugged, asked my how I could reconcile her atheism with the rest of her philosophy. I told him it was easy. I took that which is good and applied it and ignored the rest. That is what our God-given gift of discernment is for.

Here is an interesting writing by a theologian on Rand. Ethics of Ayn Rand

[frankenstein]

asked my how I could reconcile her atheism with the rest of her philosophy. I told him it was easy. I took that which is good and applied it and ignored the rest. That is what our God-given gift of discernment is for.

But isn't that "taken the good and ignore the rest" counter to what Christ taught about bitter fountains or a good trees?

[Nathair/|\]

For those who have a difficult time getting through Rand's prose, Terry Goodkind presents the same philosophy in Faith of the Fallen in a far more enjoyable manner. (I liked Atlas, but I'm a freak.) Goodkind's prose actually carries you along with it. You forget you are reading and find yourself immersed in the story. I cried when Lord Rahl was forced to smash the statue of him and Kahlan.

Yours under the literary oaks,

Nathair /|\

[ERayR]

For those who have a difficult time getting through Rand's prose, Terry Goodkind presents the same philosophy in Faith of the Fallen in a far more enjoyable manner. (I liked Atlas, but I'm a freak.) Goodkind's prose actually carries you along with it. You forget you are reading and find yourself immersed in the story. I cried when Lord Rahl was forced to smash the statue of him and Kahlan.

Yours under the literary oaks,

Nathair /|\

I too am a fan of Goodkind.

[thesometimesaint]

I'm very selective of the movies I'll actually pay good money and see in the theater. I usually will read the book before I'll see the movie version. I read Atlas Shrugged, and didn't care for it or its author. I doubt I would find the movie any less so.

Ps Ayn Rand was a closet socialist.

[urroner]

I too am a fan of Goodkind.

I really enjoyed his books. I'm sad that the Seeker series of books ended.