Conquest of Canaan

[LDS Guy 1986]

That's not what the scripture says. If God, failing to uphold the works of justice, can cease to be God, then it follows that God is not the source of Justice, but merely its custodian.

Otherwise, we have no moral compass. We're left to merely obey, obey, obey, and we have no standard of morality.

So does God also have feathers like it says in Psalms?

Of are you just being over literal?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

If God does something you believe is unjust, that doesn't make it unjust. It means your thinking is wrong and you don't have proper understanding. If God ordered the execution of every Canaanite soul, there was a reason, and the fact that you can't figure out that reason only means you don't understand what God was doing, not that He is unjust.

[LDS Guy 1986]

But God isn't supreme. Why would you think that he is?

http://lds.org/scriptures/search?lang=eng&query=god+supreme&x=0&y=0

The scriptures and the modern prophets all teach that our Heavenly Father is supreme, that even Christ submits to his will.

[LDS Guy 1986]

If God does something you believe is unjust, that doesn't make it unjust. It means your thinking is wrong and you don't have proper understanding. If God ordered the execution of every Canaanite soul, there was a reason, and the fact that you can't figure out that reason only means you don't understand what God was doing, not that He is unjust.

/agree

If we think God is unjust it doesn't mean that God is unjust, as long as we are still breathing he is still God. What it means is that we lack the understanding that God to understand the reason for his actions.

[thesometimesaint]

Peoples from time immemorial have been claiming, as a rationalization, that God told them to do unthinkable acts. IF God wants some one(group) dead he can do it himself.

[semlogo]

So does God also have feathers like it says in Psalms?

Of are you just being over literal?

Let's not confuse the issue by referring to poetic passages in psalms. That's not the issue here.

[semlogo]

If God does something you believe is unjust, that doesn't make it unjust. It means your thinking is wrong and you don't have proper understanding. If God ordered the execution of every Canaanite soul, there was a reason, and the fact that you can't figure out that reason only means you don't understand what God was doing, not that He is unjust.

Wrong. I am a moral agent, capable of distinguishing right from wrong. I refuse to surrender my moral agency to you or anyone else.

[semlogo]

http://lds.org/scriptures/search?lang=eng&query=god+supreme&x=0&y=0

The scriptures and the modern prophets all teach that our Heavenly Father is supreme, that even Christ submits to his will.

But not ultimately supreme. God defers to his own Father. He also defers to justice.

[The Nehor]

God in the Book of Mormon teaches that war is ONLY justified in a clear case of self-defense.

True, but fortunately we have the Law of War God said he gave to the ancients in the D&C. The teaching you give is there but God also reserves the right to command his servants to go to war. If he does not give that command, then only self-defense is tolerated.

[semlogo]

Baloney, assassination of a high ranking official (such as a High Priest in 600BC) is an act of war.

[semlogo]

True, but fortunately we have the Law of War God said he gave to the ancients in the D&C. The teaching you give is there but God also reserves the right to command his servants to go to war. If he does not give that command, then only self-defense is tolerated.

I'm not familiar with that one - which section is it in?

In any case, that still doesn't justify the murder of children.

[AmorLibertas]

Nephi's execution of Lban fell under justifiable homicide in the Law of Moses. If a person steals from you and threatens your life- if the Lord delivers that person into your hands, you are justified in executing the person.

CFR

[AmorLibertas]

Duplicate post

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Wrong. I am a moral agent, capable of distinguishing right from wrong. I refuse to surrender my moral agency to you or anyone else.

You can determine what you believe is right and wrong, that has no bearing whatsoever on the acts of God and whether they are just.

Isaiah 55:8

8

[BookofMormonLuvr]

CFR

No problem...

I Nephi 1:120 - "... I did obey the voice of the Spirit,

and took L.abcm... and I smote off his head with his

own swor-d,"

This is the same God who told N~phi's ancestors

to "smite every male the~~';)fwlth the edge of the

sword: But !~~'~omen, and the little ones and the cat'[~

e,and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof,

shalt thou take unto thyself ." thou shalt save alive

nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy

them ...." - Deut. 20: 13-17. This harsh command was

given to save His people from spiritual death.

The Mosaic law of excusable homicide as defined

in Exodus 21:12-14, requires if a man smite a man so

that he die, he shall surely be put to death. And if a

man lie not in wait but God deliver him unto his hand;

"then will I appoint thee a place whither he shall flee."

Nephi states that as he went back into the city of

Jerusalem late that night he went "not knowing beforehand

the things which I should do." He was not lying

in wait, as the statute forbids. Second, the Spirit told

Nephi to "Slay him," - and why? "for the Lord hath

delivered him into thy hands."

See ch. 10 of A Book of Mormon Companion:

Witnesses to its Validity, by Donald E. Mclndoo

[LDS Guy 1986]

But not ultimately supreme. God defers to his own Father. He also defers to justice.

I disagree and I feel that the scriptures and the LDS Church also agrees if you check the Bible dictionary it says that God is the supreme governor of the Universe, he made justice he is not below it nor governed by it. He is made justice so the reason why he obeys the law of justice is because he made justice and knows that it is good.

[semlogo]

You can determine what you believe is right and wrong, that has no bearing whatsoever on the acts of God and whether they are just.

You are pretty presumptuous to assume you can read the mind of God.

Please don't misrepresent what I said. I never claimed to read God's mind. I do know the difference between right and wrong, and does anyone else who isn't blinded by fundamentalism.

[semlogo]

I disagree and I feel that the scriptures and the LDS Church also agrees if you check the Bible dictionary it says that God is the supreme governor of the Universe, he made justice he is not below it nor governed by it. He is made justice so the reason why he obeys the law of justice is because he made justice and knows that it is good.

That's not what the Book of Mormon says. Also, this likely isn't the only universe.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Please don't misrepresent what I said. I never claimed to read God's mind. I do know the difference between right and wrong, and does anyone else who isn't blinded by fundamentalism.

No, you are endeavoring to read the mind of God. You claim that there is no possible way God ordered the execution of the Canaanites, claiming it would be unjust of Him. How in the world do you pretend to know that, unless you believe you can read the mind of God?

[LDS Guy 1986]

That's not what the Book of Mormon says. Also, this likely isn't the only universe.

I didn't say BoM, I said Bible Dictionary

[volgadon]

Baloney, assassination of a high ranking official (such as a High Priest in 600BC) is an act of war.

Do you remember the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria?

His assassination resulted in a World War that claimed the lives of almost 10 million young men in WWI, not to mention the loss of civilian lives and the massive damage done to Europe from the War.

One could also argue that since the conclusion of WWI set the grounds for WWII that this assassination was an indirect cause of WWII which claimed over 25 million lives militarily and over 12 million civilian lives in the Holocaust alone.

A single murder is an act of war, especially if you assassinate a high ranking religious or government official, and a single murder has resulted in millions of lives lost in war.

Now Nephi was doing what the Lord commanded him to, but had there been witnesses to this assassination, I have no doubt that Zedekiah would of sought to capture and try Nephi for murder.

This song is

The assassination of Franz Ferdinand was not an act of war. Perhaps you should look into the July Ultimatum.

The assassination of Alexander II was not an act of war either.

[LDS Guy 1986]

This song is

The assassination of Franz Ferdinand was not an act of war. Perhaps you should look into the July Ultimatum.

You are simply wrong, Franz Ferdinand (18 December 1863

[volgadon]

precipitated

'Precipitated' does not equal "act of war." Seriously, your wikipediastic popular wisdom isn't far removed from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk37TD_08eA

The poor old ostrich really did die for nothing.

The old figure of the assassination of the archduke being the spark on the powderkeg which ignited WWI is overly simplistic. The July Ultimatum (of which I suspect you were unaware of until just recently), shows this to be the case.

[semlogo]

No, you are endeavoring to read the mind of God. You claim that there is no possible way God ordered the execution of the Canaanites, claiming it would be unjust of Him. How in the world do you pretend to know that, unless you believe you can read the mind of God?

No, I'm saying there is no possible way a good and just God could have ordered it. Since I believe God to be good and just, I don't believe the account of the genocide.

[semlogo]

I didn't say BoM, I said Bible Dictionary

The Bible Dictionary isn't doctrine. The Book of Mormon is.