Book of Mormon names

[Minos]

Everybody stop the insults or the thread will be closed.

[Dan Vogel]

Interesting theory, except the Bible (Joseph's only real source document outside the Plates) doesn't define Nahum. In fact, in the text of the Bible, the only place the name shows up is Nah 1:1.

How would he have known?

Lehi

Some Bibles with notes at the bottom contained the definition. I don't know where JS learned it, but I suspect he heard about Nahum the Comforter in a sermon, possibly a funeral sermon.

[Ariarates]

Is there a list of BoM names and their origin somewhere? I thought it would be easy to google that but it doesn't turn up anything comprehensive. I've figured out that there are some 330 proper names in the BoM and that "some" are found in the Bible as well, but that's about all I could find. Maybe I'm just not a good googler...

[TAO]

Is there a list of BoM names and their origin somewhere? I thought it would be easy to google that but it doesn't turn up anything comprehensive. I've figured out that there are some 330 proper names in the BoM and that "some" are found in the Bible as well, but that's about all I could find. Maybe I'm just not a good googler...

Here: http://en.wikipedia....f_Mormon_people

But there's also Moriancumer that isn't on the list as well... but it's not in the book... it was via revelation, so I guess that's why it's not on the list.

Also things to find that aren't necessarily names include many city names as well as words like Corihor (a valley), Ripliancum (large waters), Irreantum (sea), and other various geographical features.

EDIT: Ooh... a list of places too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Book_of_Mormon_places

[Bernard Gui]

Some Bibles with notes at the bottom contained the definition. I don't know where JS learned it, but I suspect he heard about Nahum the Comforter in a sermon, possibly a funeral sermon.

If we had some bacon, we could have bacon and eggs, but we don't have any eggs.

Bernard

[Bernard Gui]

Is there a list of BoM names and their origin somewhere? I thought it would be easy to google that but it doesn't turn up anything comprehensive. I've figured out that there are some 330 proper names in the BoM and that "some" are found in the Bible as well, but that's about all I could find. Maybe I'm just not a good googler...

Not from the Book of Mormon, but interesting nevertheless - here is a list of proper nouns from Spalding's "Manuscript Found."

It's fun to compare them with BoM proper nouns, at least it's fun for me.

Bernard

PERSONAL NAMES

Bithawan (Sciotan councilman)

Boakin (Sciotan councilman)

Bombal (king of Kentucks)

Constantine

Cousin Elseon

Crito (Roman)

Drofalick (chief prophet of Sciotia)

Droll Tom (Roman)

Elseon (Kentuck prince, loves Lamesa)

Fabius (Roman)

Gamanko (Sciotan councilman)

Habolan (King of Chiauga)

Hadokam (king of Scotia)

Hamback (son of Lobaska)

Hamboon (King of Kentuck, father of Elseon)

Hamelick (Sciotan general)

Hamko (Kentuck leader)

Hamkol (Sciotan councilman)

Hamul (councilor to Kentuck Emperor)

Helicon (friend of Elseon)

Heliza (friend of Lamesa)

Jeshuran (Old Testament name used in a cliche)

Jesus Christ

Kalo (High Priest)

Kelsock (Kentuck leader)

Labamack (son of Lobaska)

Labanco (Kentuck ambassador)

Lakoonrod (Sciotan High Priest)

Lambon (High Priest, son of Lobaska)

Lamesa (daughter of the Emperor)

Lobaska (Ohian leader, introduced writing, science, and religion)

Lucian (Roman)

Moonrod (son of the Emperor)

Nunapon (the King of Catarangus)

Queen of Scotia

Ramack (the King of Geneseo)

Rambock (14th Emperor of Scotia)

Rankoff (Sciotan general)

Sabamah (Sciotan general)

Sambal (King of Scotia, wants Lamesa, too)

Taboon (councilor to Kentuck Emperor)

Trojanus (Roman)

Ulipoom (King of Michigan)

Baska (great visitor from the west)

PLACE NAMES

Asia

Britain

Chaldea

Coneaught River

Deliwah River

Earth

Egypt

Gamba (city)

Geheno (plain where great battle was fought)

Great Lakes of Erie and Michigan

Great Mountain

Great River

Great River Suscowah

Lake Ontario

Land of Kentuck

Ohio (river)

Owhahon (city)

Plains of Geheno

River Kentuck

Sciota River

Tolanga (city)

NAMES OF DEITY

Almighty Architect

Benevolent Spirit

Divine Mercy

Good Being

Great and Good Spirit

Great Author

Great Benevolent Spirit

Great Father of Spirits

Great Spirit

Heavenly Hierarchy

High Authority of Heaven

Him Who Rules the World

Infinite Benevolence

Intelligent Omnipotent Being

Maker

Omniscience

Great Malignant Spirit

PEOPLES

Catarangus (nation)

Deliwans (nation)

Europeans

Kentucks (nation)

Michigan (nation)

Ohians (nation)

Roman Empire

Sciotans (nation)

TITLES

Christian

Empress

Government of Kentuck

Great Oracle (title of Lobaska)

High Priest

Mr. Philosopher

Prince

Princess

Your Highness

Your Most Excellent Majesty

OTHER

Battle of Geheno

Chaos

Declaration of War

Furies

Moon

Platonic System

Sacred Roll

September

Spring

Sun

The Blue Feather

Throne of Omnipotence

[volgadon]

Some Bibles with notes at the bottom contained the definition. I don't know where JS learned it, but I suspect he heard about Nahum the Comforter in a sermon, possibly a funeral sermon.

Are you contending that Nahom is with a heh or with a khet? Are you saying that it is mourning, or comfort?

[Robert F. Smith]

Are you contending that Nahom is with a heh or with a khet? Are you saying that it is mourning, or comfort?

What makes you think that Dan knows what a heh or khet are?

Dan always says that he thinks that these things were merely part of Joseph's environment, not that he ever did any research. So I guess Joseph had to hear Nahom when somebody preached Nahum at a funeral.

The problem with such offhand suppositions, is that such accurate correlations are so common that Joseph had to have had access to a plethora of correct items with which to "salt" his work (Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, etc.). Yet, even the best scholars of Joseph's day could not have managed it. A dilemma.

[LeSellers]

ATTENTION!!!!!

There's a whole lotta speculatin' goin' on.

Some Bibles with notes at the bottom contained the definition. I don't know where JS learned it, but I suspect he heard about Nahum the Comforter in a sermon, possibly a funeral sermon.

And you also suspect that Joseph remembered this years later, changed the spelling (cf the prophet Nahom/Neum cited from the Brass Plates) and pronunciation, added it in an obscure (but rational and reasonable) way and place, and never mentioned it in any of his own speaking or writings.

This is one of the things that always makes we wonder: the bull's eyes we find in the Book of Mormon are typically ignored in the later works of Joseph Smith (and others closely associated with the translation), yet antis and other critics make the "point" that Joseph read this or that, heard some such, and then incorporated this element into the Book of Mormon. But they ignore that fact that he never took any credit for this research, and never even mentioned the elements. They were simply not important to him.

Lehi

[Dan Vogel]

Are you contending that Nahom is with a heh or with a khet? Are you saying that it is mourning, or comfort?

Even Mormon scholars have linked Nahom with mourning and comfort--Sidney Sperry and Alan Goff, IIRC.

[Mike Reed]

you also suspect that Joseph remembered this years later, changed the spelling

How is spelling relevant to a theory that assumes the word was passed through word of mouth?

and pronunciation,

How do you know how Joseph Smith pronounced it?

But they ignore that fact that he never took any credit for this research

Now why the heck would he do that? Take credit for the research of writing the BoM? You can't be serious.

and never even mentioned the elements.

Why should that be so surprising? He rarely even preached from the BoM.

[Dan Vogel]

What makes you think that Dan knows what a heh or khet are?

Dan always says that he thinks that these things were merely part of Joseph's environment, not that he ever did any research. So I guess Joseph had to hear Nahom when somebody preached Nahum at a funeral.

The problem with such offhand suppositions, is that such accurate correlations are so common that Joseph had to have had access to a plethora of correct items with which to "salt" his work (Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, etc.). Yet, even the best scholars of Joseph's day could not have managed it. A dilemma.

Both of us are working from the assumption that the BOM is either ancient (you) or modern (me), and neither of us knows exactly why the name was chosen or how it go int the BOM. We are both speculating

[Dan Vogel]

There's a whole lotta speculatin' goin' on.

[LeSellers]

How is spelling relevant to a theory that assumes the word was passed through word of mouth?

This is your only reply? I feel vindicated.

Your contention is that Joseph knew the name/word NHM (or N?M) meant "consolation" or "moan" etc., and that he got this from the footnotes in his Bible or from a funeral sermon. For him to have dropped the "H" or "?" while citing the prophet Nahom from the Brass Plates would have been odd, at the very least. After all, it was one of only three element in the name.

How do you know how Joseph Smith pronounced it?

He must have pronounced it without the "H" because Oliver recorded it as "Neum".

It's also interesting to me that Lehi, as a northern Kingdom refugee, would possibly have spoken the dialect that modified some Hebrew words by dropping or changing sounds. The Shibboleth example is but one. Had the Lehites inherited a dialect that did, then "Neum" is a likely choice for having been so modified.

Now why the heck would he ... [t]ake credit for the research of writing the BoM? You can't be serious.

Were I not serious, I would not have raised the issue.

If the Book of Mormon were not the word of God, then why would he not have bragged about how great his book was? Why would he not have taken credit for being one of the world's greatest scholars of ancient world?

It's your contention that makes no sense.

Why should that be so surprising? He rarely even preached from the BoM.

It's surprising because Joseph was, according to so many antis and other critics, a megalomaniac, and his supposed egocentrism would not have allowed him to forgo the accolades that would surely have come to him.

As to whether he "rarely" preached from the Book of Mormon, your statement at least implies that he did occasionally preach from it. And when he did, he never brought up Nahum or Bountiful or metal plates, or any of the other bull's eyes.

Lehi

[Mike Reed]

Delete.

[Robert F. Smith]

Both of us are working from the assumption that the BOM is either ancient (you) or modern (me), and neither of us knows exactly why the name was chosen or how it go int the BOM. We are both speculating

[volgadon]

Even Mormon scholars have linked Nahom with mourning and comfort--Sidney Sperry and Alan Goff, IIRC.

That wasn't quite my question. Are you saying that Nahom is ??? and if so, then is it mourning or is it comfort.

[volgadon]

However, Jo Ann Hackett also suggested an alternative Hebrew root nhm ??? " to growl, groan" (without the aspirated -h- in the middle). As it happens that is the exact consonantal equivalent of the early South Arabic NHM/Nihm which is found on a couple of limestone altars at the Bar'an Temple near Marib (ancient capital of Saba').

I posted about this here the other day, so I would be very interested in reading this prior proposal.

[Ariarates]

@ TAO and Bernard Gui: thanks for the links. I had already found lists of BoM names, but I was looking for a list of names AND possible origins. Most of what I found on the internet concerned individual names but I can imagine someone made a classification like so many Biblical names, so many Greek names (I know that one: 2). Is there a classification like that?

[DJBrown]

I was thinking again this morning about names. The list of validated Book of Mormon names is nothing new to most apologists, although apparently unknown to most critics. Non-LDS sources clearly support the veracity of at least Sam (dialectic Semitic for Shem, not just a Yankee abbreviation for Samuel!), Alma, Kish, Pahoran, Paanchi, Hermounts (i.e., Hermontis) and even that very-strange-upon-English-ears Aha. Cumorah may share linguistic roots with Qumran. That's just a partial list; of course there are more.

I wonder what the non-LDS explanation can be for these. Sheer coincidence might wave away one, even two, but they add up.

In my experience interracting with critics, they most often simply wave the names away by claiming Joseph opened his KJV bible to the page that lists all the names and mixed random names together. This is what they fall back to almost every time, in my experience.

Two major hurdles make this theory very difficult to swallow:

1. The number of legitimate names produced by this supposed method seems way too signficant to have been the result of rolling the dice.

2. The fact that these names so consistently correspond to the right time frame (800-500 B.C.) makes this theory (or any other) much too difficult for me to accept.

Thanks

[Dan Vogel]

LeSellers,

He must have pronounced it without the "H" because Oliver recorded it as "Neum".

I looked this up in Skousen

[TAO]

@ TAO and Bernard Gui: thanks for the links. I had already found lists of BoM names, but I was looking for a list of names AND possible origins. Most of what I found on the internet concerned individual names but I can imagine someone made a classification like so many Biblical names, so many Greek names (I know that one: 2). Is there a classification like that?

Yah, there is a few sites out there that have lists of possible names.

But I think many are missing and/or obscure... or they are compounded in such wierd ways it is kinda unrealistic.

I'm pretty sure you could google it though and it would come up with some lists and stuff though.

[LeSellers]

I looked this up in Skousen

[Mike Reed]

First Nephi. I don't have the luxury of Brother Skousen's work.

What does the punctuation mean? The brackets usually indicate words/letters the editor added for clarity. It could be the reverse here: [N]aho[m] could be "NM", which would bolster my position.

I only have Skowsen's printer's manuscripts, but according the explanation of the symbols in these volumes, bracketed letters indicate that the letters are "partially legible."

[Bernard Gui]

I posted the Spalding list because his book is proposed

as the real source of the Book of Mormon. After looking

at the list, do you think Joseph copied Spalding's names?

Bernard

@ TAO and Bernard Gui: thanks for the links. I had already found lists of BoM names, but I was looking for a list of names AND possible origins. Most of what I found on the internet concerned individual names but I can imagine someone made a classification like so many Biblical names, so many Greek names (I know that one: 2). Is there a classification like that?