Near Death Experiences

[Cold Steel]

As I've said in other posts, I've been reading many near death experiences, and they're fascinating. Being LDS, I find solace in the fact that many of these experiences are consistent with our beliefs, especially when those who are not of our faith report elements of our beliefs such as premortality. But then there are the inconsistencies. I just finished reading Howard Storm's account of being subjected to evil spirits. The account was extremely frightening...extremely...not because of the evil spirits, per se, but because his description of the French medical system is enough to keep my feet planted firmly in this country (for the time being). Only one doctor was in the entire hospital, and it wasn't a small out of the way clinic, but Paris. Where were the other doctors? It was their days off! Storm, an avowed atheist, thought he was slipping into oblivion. He said good-bye to his wife and then he found himself standing up between the two beds in the room. His wife and his roommate were unable to see or hear him.

A professor of arts, he had, like many, lived a hedonistic life. He was selfish, aloof and had learned to use anger as a way of manipulating others. After his experience, he changed dramatically and has dedicated his life to others. But it wasn't his experience with the spirits of the wicked that bothered me, but of his subsequent rescue by Jesus, whom he described thus:

I knew that this light, this radiance, knew me. I don't know how to explain to you that I knew it knew me, I just did. As a matter of fact, I understood that it knew me better than my mother or father did. The luminous entity that embraced me knew me intimately and began to communicate a tremendous sense of knowledge. I knew that he knew everything about me and I was being unconditionally loved and accepted.

The light conveyed to me that it loved me in a way that I can't begin to express. It loved me in a way that I had never known that love could possibly be. He was a concentrated field of energy, radiant in splendor indescribable, except to say goodness and love. This was more loving than one can imagine.

I knew that this radiant being was powerful. It was making me feel so good all over. I could feel its light on me

[tana]

I've been working on a model of existence for quite a few years now. It's certainly not perfected, but it goes something like: We all share a core awareness. In essence, WE are god, and therefor WE create our own realities. Of course I'm just now brushing up an overview, as I don't want to derail your thread. But the theory is; If your a Mormon, and create for yourself a Mormon worldview, THAT is what you get in the afterlife. If your a Muslim, that is what you get.

I've noticed that in a lot of NDE's the people are at least somewhat affiliated with Christianity, and they seem to always describe being met by Jesus or something similar.

I have a faint memory of a C.S. Lewis novel where a couple of characters ( I think they were bad guys) are killed in battle?....but they don't realize they are dead. They don't accept their TRUE fate, but are caught up in the reality they had created for themselves, and continue on oblivious to the others in this same afterlife, who are giving them a wide berth.

Anyway, this theory doesn't have an accounting for how the Atheist's fare. Those that believe that the soul is NOT eternal, there is no afterlife. It would seem that they get what they create also...which would be, I guess...Nada. But like I recall from that novel, it was a temporary state, which at some point they can wake up from.

[nicolasconnault]

I've been working on a model of existence for quite a few years now. It's certainly not perfected, but it goes something like: We all share a core awareness. In essence, WE are god, and therefor WE create our own realities. Of course I'm just now brushing up an overview, as I don't want to derail your thread. But the theory is; If your a Mormon, and create for yourself a Mormon worldview, THAT is what you get in the afterlife. If your a Muslim, that is what you get.

I've noticed that in a lot of NDE's the people are at least somewhat affiliated with Christianity, and they seem to always describe being met by Jesus or something similar.

I have a faint memory of a C.S. Lewis novel where a couple of characters ( I think they were bad guys) are killed in battle?....but they don't realize they are dead. They don't accept their TRUE fate, but are caught up in the reality they had created for themselves, and continue on oblivious to the others in this same afterlife, who are giving them a wide berth.

Anyway, this theory doesn't have an accounting for how the Atheist's fare. Those that believe that the soul is NOT eternal, there is no afterlife. It would seem that they get what they create also...which would be, I guess...Nada. But like I recall from that novel, it was a temporary state, which at some point they can wake up from.

You should take a look at Terry Pratchett's humorous version of Death

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

As I've said in other posts, I've been reading many near death experiences, and they're fascinating. Being LDS, I find solace in the fact that many of these experiences are consistent with our beliefs, especially when those who are not of our faith report elements of our beliefs such as premortality. But then there are the inconsistencies. I just finished reading Howard Storm's account of being subjected to evil spirits. The account was extremely frightening...extremely...not because of the evil spirits, per se, but because his description of the French medical system is enough to keep my feet planted firmly in this country (for the time being). Only one doctor was in the entire hospital, and it wasn't a small out of the way clinic, but Paris. Where were the other doctors? It was their days off! Storm, an avowed atheist, thought he was slipping into oblivion. He said good-bye to his wife and then he found himself standing up between the two beds in the room. His wife and his roommate were unable to see or hear him.

A professor of arts, he had, like many, lived a hedonistic life. He was selfish, aloof and had learned to use anger as a way of manipulating others. After his experience, he changed dramatically and has dedicated his life to others. But it wasn't his experience with the spirits of the wicked that bothered me, but of his subsequent rescue by Jesus, whom he described thus:

There is a present tread as of late with books popping up about NDE

[Kevin Christensen]

At the IANDS conference in Salt Lake City in 1999, I heard Howard Storm speak, and I've got his interesting book. As I recall, he is now a Congregationalist Minister in Cincinnati. I noticed that he talks a lot like Alma, and I think of him as modern-day Alma. As he began his talk, he commented that he had asked for a blessing from some of the LDS people present, and said that when they blessed him, he felt light pour into him. After recovering from his physical ordeal, he got a degree in Theology, and it was quite evident that his ways of talking about God were often informed by his schooling, and not just his experience. There's nothing wrong with that. I just noticed.

I also met Elane Durham there, heard her talk and read her fascinating book.

Pratchett's Death is very interesting, with his occasional "near-Rincewind experience." (The Color of Magic.) He's a very moral writer. We're especially fond of the Tiffany Aching books, starting with the Wee Free Men.

Zaleski's Otherworld Journeys was the most helpful to me doing my NDE essay in JBMS 2/1. And of course, I'm convinced that Brigham Young's very specific and detailed teachings about the afterlife came from his experience at Winter Quarters. The visions of Joseph Smith and the accounts in the Book of Mormon ensure that the LDS remain a community and a context where NDE accounts can be accepted.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[Questing Beast]

...

So what are your views of NDEs? Some, I imagine, are caused by medicine and lack of oxygen. Anyone who tells me they experience euphoria and light in a drowning isn't telling me anything new. That's common. But when they begin recounting detailed conversations and images, well, that's a bit different. Another impressive thing is that the Book of Mormon recounts the stories of a number of NDEs. It's just another one of the fascinating evidences that it's a true record.

But again, what are your views?

I accept them as real occurrences. The interesting thing about their perspective is that most NDEs are from a shared cultural base that believes in "traditional" motifs, e.g. light vs. darkness for good and evil; heaven with beings of light and glory; angelic appearances, etc. There is some rare evidence that NDEs from other cultures do not share in these anticipated motifs, but rather their own cultural norms for the afterlife. Some non believers only return convinced that life continues, but with no belief in "God" per se; yet their NDE changes them into a more caring person, etc.

The skeptics who mock NDEs as nothing more than a phenomenon of the brain's chemistry going awry, fail to connect real experiences to the very same brain chemistry. So a "near death experience", such as a brush with death narrowly averted: if we could monitor the brain's chemistry as a result of that all-too-real experience, it would without a doubt compare to an artificially induced altered brain chemistry via drugs or deprivation, etc: yet nobody would assume that because science can replicate such a brain chemistry, wherein the brain's chemistry is altered by an instantaneous infusion of adrenalin, that the actual experiences of real danger are any less real.

The trouble with NDEs is that they are spontaneous. Even setting up to monitor or detect them in a hospital setting does not produce events that can be studied without contamination. It is all very difficult to verify and can occur at any moment or never occur at all when waiting for them.

As for the differing details, I don't let that bother me at all. Individuals will see and hear and feel whatever: and the key here is "individuals": no two of us are exactly alike so why expect "God" to manifest or communicate exactly alike? An infinite being is not going to be limited to a finite, much less singular, manifestation....

[zelder]

I read Howard Storm's book about 1 month ago. I loved it. It was inspiring and helped me to be a better person. I think it helped me understand how to love a little better. I also read Sarah Menet's "There is no Death" about two years ago. Her account was also very inspiring and taught about love. She didn't meet Jesus but saw him in the distance as he met with a group of people. She said that he radiates love and that he is the light of the world. I don't think Sarah Menet was LDS at the time of her NDE but she is is now. Her book says nothing of religions, it only teaches about Jesus and that we need to love one another and do good. NDE bring the scriptures to life for me and I think they are a form of revelation from God for the benefit of man.

[Libs]

I've been working on a model of existence for quite a few years now. It's certainly not perfected, but it goes something like: We all share a core awareness. In essence, WE are god, and therefor WE create our own realities. Of course I'm just now brushing up an overview, as I don't want to derail your thread. But the theory is; If your a Mormon, and create for yourself a Mormon worldview, THAT is what you get in the afterlife. If your a Muslim, that is what you get.

I've noticed that in a lot of NDE's the people are at least somewhat affiliated with Christianity, and they seem to always describe being met by Jesus or something similar.

I have a faint memory of a C.S. Lewis novel where a couple of characters ( I think they were bad guys) are killed in battle?....but they don't realize they are dead. They don't accept their TRUE fate, but are caught up in the reality they had created for themselves, and continue on oblivious to the others in this same afterlife, who are giving them a wide berth.

Anyway, this theory doesn't have an accounting for how the Atheist's fare. Those that believe that the soul is NOT eternal, there is no afterlife. It would seem that they get what they create also...which would be, I guess...Nada. But like I recall from that novel, it was a temporary state, which at some point they can wake up from.

I am coming to the belief that we do, to some degree, get what we expect, after death, at least for a time. I think we are very much co-creators, to some small extent (we are, afterall, made in the image of God).

I'm reading Elane Durham's book, right now, and it really is very interesting.

I've read other NDE's and a lot of them do have "some" similarities, like beautiful, other worldly music, colors that are not seen here on earth, white light, many go through some kind of tunnel with a brilliant white light at the end. Many also describe meeting people, on the other side, that they know, like relatives and friends..

I think the phenomenon is fascinating. I do believe in an afterlife. I don't really know exactly what, but I think/hope it will be glorious.

Someone mentioned NDE's about people going to hell. I remember, as a child, someone speaking in our Baptist Church about just such a thing. He had a NDE where he felt himself falling into a pit of some kind, with Angels singing above him...but, he was going away from the music, rather than towards it. It really scared him (scared me too, as a kid) and he was using his experience, as a warning to others. In that church, no one questioned that he had a real experience of almost falling into hell. It did dramatically change his life.

[zelder]

An interesting part of Storm's bood is that he asked Jesus and the angels point blank which church was true and they told him, that its the church that helps you get closests to god. This part was a little offensive to my wife. She thinks that Jesus would have said its the COJCOLDS but I fugure that maybe god wants Storm serving elsewhere.