Can Women Become Goddesses?

[Deborah]

I don't think LDS Guy realizes who David Bokovoy is otherwise he wouldn't embarrass himself by correcting him on commas in scriptures.

[David Bokovoy]

So first you murder any basic college English class then you flat out libel me!

Of course it

[Calm]

Under the topic guide at lds.org for Worship:

Prayer is one way to worship Heavenly Father.

http://lds.org/study...orship?lang=eng

Also here:

Worship includes prayer, fasting, church service, participating in gospel ordinances, and other practices that show devotion and love for God.

http://lds.org/scriptures/gs/worship?lang=eng

[David Bokovoy]

I don't think LDS Guy realizes who David Bokovoy is otherwise he wouldn't embarrass himself by correcting him on commas in scriptures.

Indeed, little does he know, I am the comma god!

Love ya,

--DB

[David Bokovoy]

Under the topic guide at lds.org for Worship: http://lds.org/study...orship?lang=eng

Also here: http://lds.org/scriptures/gs/worship?lang=eng

Congratulations, Cal! You've just proven that the LDS church is not true! Turn out the lights, the party's over. What the heck am I going to do tomorrow?!

Find the verse that states prayer is worship and you end the LDS Chruch, oh wait there is no verse saying prayer is worship, you made that up! LOL

[Calm]

What the heck am I going to do tomorrow?!

Make me some barbecue.

[TAO]

Verse 22 says they believe in Christ (remember that verse 21 says "Father, I pray thee that thou wilt give the Holy Ghost unto all them that shall believe in their words." under your logic we are suppost to worship the Nephite 12 Apostles as well!), and remember that Christ taught in John 10 to believe in he who sent me.

Of course the people there will believe in Christ and if they believe in Christ they will obey his commandment and not believe in him but believe in he who sent him.

You did not read the entire verse.

22 Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in ^ame; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them.

Bolding, Underlining by me.

I am not saying that it is an appropriate reason to pray to anybody, I am saying that Jesus Christ permitted it in this instance.

I am asking you to respond to the fact that he permitted it. You say he will never permit it, that it is against his rules, and yet he did just there.

I'm not saying he will permit it always either, but I am asking you to deal with the quote straight on - why did he permit it in this instance, and would there be other instances where he would permit it?

[TAO]

Congratulations, Cal! You've just proven that the LDS church is not true! Turn out the lights, the party's over. What the heck am I going to do tomorrow?!

David, take a look at this part: other practices that show devotion and love for God

I think that just proved your point... ish.

[Calm]

David, take a look at this part: other practices that show devotion and love for God

I think that just proved your point... ish.

Shhh....I want barbecue.

[TAO]

Shhh....I want barbecue.

*hands free barbecued meat *

now you have TWO barbecues.... ;-)

[Calm]

Well, Tao, It's been fun and as always educational.

I am off to bed. Don't you stay up too late, young man.

[TAO]

I am off to bed. Don't you stay up too late, young man.

*sulks in corner* you got me.

[David Bokovoy]

Make me some barbecue.

The weather is warming up, so we seriously need to do this. I've got a fun yard set up with three smokers, so we could throw a big board party one Saturday. Or just you and your husband over, either way.

For the record, I've reconsidered my position and have determined that your post does not prove the Church is untrue, so despite the fact that it's snowing this morning, I'm going in order to worship God and the Lamb.

[David Bokovoy]

David, take a look at this part: other practices that show devotion and love for God

I think that just proved your point... ish.

Thanks, TAO. Another important point, no doubt.

As I have explained, there really isn

[Deborah]

Prayer is not worship it is communication, it never was worship, it never will be worship, and you are just 110% wrong to equate prayer with worship.

From the LDS website "Prayer is one way to worship Heavenly Father. "

Worship

[Deborah]

Indeed, little does he know, I am the comma god!

The point of course being if you are going to argue with a scholar of scriptures you ought to have more than commas to defend yourself.

[LDS Guy 1986]

If you are correct that worshipping Christ is a sin, then that

[TAO]

The punctuation of the verse further tells us that only God is being worshiped, and that the Lamb also worships him forever and ever.

Read the verse I pointed out from 3 Nephi. It's not that straightforward.... yah =P.

[LDS Guy 1986]

From the LDS website "Prayer is one way to worship Heavenly Father. "

Worship

If we place any person or thing above the love of God, we worship that thing or person.

This is from the same page, if we are worshiping Christ it means we love him more than Heavenly Father. So you are saying that you love Christ more than your Father in Heaven?

It also says in this little page "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy might, mind, and strength; and in the name of Jesus Christ thou shalt serve him

[David Bokovoy]

Once again, you ignore the entire argument

I really haven't. I've dealt with every point you've raised and illustrated quite clearly why I maintain that your view is highly problematic. In response you offer this:

and make up more lies to instead of looking at what I said.

It's really quite unfortunate that on a discussion board, one cannot disagree with your opinion without you making things so personal. Accusing others of lying, libel, and the other accusations you've raised is a bit childish, don't you think? But let's look at my supposed lie about you:

I never said worshiping Christ is a sin, or that worshiping Christ damns you. These are things you made up to deflect from the actual point, ignoring the discussion doesn't prove anything.

First, let me again state that I never said you believed that worshipping Christ damns a person. I showed that Nephi taught that refusing to worship Christ damns a person's spiritual progression.

Second, here was your quote:

Worshiping Christ is wrong, at the same time Christ can forgive you of this misguided mistake

By stating that worshipping Christ is "wrong" and that Christ can "forgive you" for your "mistake," are you not suggesting that worshipping Christ is a sin? If you're correct that the act is "wrong" and the "mistake" requires "forgiveness" wouldn't that make it a "sin"?

the verse clearly states only one person is worshiped hence the "worship him" instead of "worship them".

And I explained how this clause is a later textual addition that based upon Joseph's later poetic version of the text, did not alter the meaning of the first portion of the verse. Perhaps you should go back and review the information.

It is a discussion about the plain and simple gospel fact that we are to worship Elohim and no one else.

Again, you never answered my question regarding which Elohim you're referring to, since the scriptures define Jehovah as Elohim (see previous post).

[zerinus]

I need more than 2 Nephi, NT and OT, also even if these prophet's said this they are in conflict with the words of Christ. So you can either follow the word of man (which are imperfect) or the words of Christ (which are perfect). The handful of times that prophets mention worshiping Christ most likely is incorrectly translated from the word praise or give glory to, it could also be that these prophets did think we should worship Christ and were mistaken like those who still worship Christ are. Paul, Nephi, and any other man is still capable of error, Christ is not capable of error! Christ taught us to only worship the Father and that the Father is greater than he is. Of course this is all opinion but it is going by the concept of the Church that Christ is perfect and men are imperfect, I follow the words of Christ even when the words of man contradict the words of Christ, we are told to do this in the New Testament several times.

Whether translation error, or the mistaken belief of a few prophets, the fact still stands that to worship Christ is to disobey the direct teachings of Christ.

Okay, I like a guy who sticks to what he believes; but I take these words to be total scripture, the inerrant word of God:

2 Nephi 25

:

29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must

bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul;

and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

I have no reason to question their veracity whatsoever.

D&C 29:1-2 also signifies an act of worship. There is no question in my mind about that:

D&C 29

:

1 Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great I AM, whose arm of mercy hath atoned for your sins;

2 Who will gather his people even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, even as many as will hearken to my voice and

humble themselves before me, and call upon me in mighty prayer

.

That is an act of worship. The wording cannot be understood in any other sense.

[Lareliw]

So I was gone for a couple of days because I didn't have access to my computer, and now I am very confused! What about John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " The Word I have always understood to mean Christ. And also John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." I guess I don't understand how the view of Heavenly Father and Christ really works.

Okay, I like a guy who sticks to what he believes; but I take these words to be total scripture, the inerrant word of God:

2 Nephi 25

:

29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must

bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul;

and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

I have no reason to question their veracity whatsoever.

D&C 29:1-2 also signifies an act of worship. There is no question in my mind about that:

D&C 29

:

1 Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great I AM, whose arm of mercy hath atoned for your sins;

2 Who will gather his people even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, even as many as will hearken to my voice and

humble themselves before me, and call upon me in mighty prayer

.

That is an act of worship. The wording cannot be understood in any other sense.

[zerinus]

So I was gone for a couple of days because I didn't have access to my computer, and now I am very confused! What about John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " The Word I have always understood to mean Christ. And also John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." I guess I don't understand how the view of Heavenly Father and Christ really works.

What don't you understand about it?

[Lareliw]

I have always been taught the Trinitarian view. In LDS doctrine, it seems that Jesus Christ has a, I don't know, somewhat lesser role? Even though the first verse that I quoted seems to say otherwise. I am new to all of this, and it is confusing to me.

What don't you understand about it?

[zerinus]

I have always been taught the Trinitarian view. In LDS doctrine, it seems that Jesus Christ has a, I don't know, somewhat lesser role? Even though the first verse that I quoted seems to say otherwise. I am new to all of this, and it is confusing to me.

Mormonism does not accept the Trinitarian theology of historical or traditional Christianity.