"Gender" - a Premortal Choice/Assignment/Track of Learning?

[David T]

Joseph S once described Paul.Joseph had no idea what he looked like in mortality ,but the description was not totally flattering.If he saw Paul as he was in mortality,but then Paul's spiritual self was not as it was then, it must have formed to the mortal shape.

As per Christ's statement about the variations in intelligence of individuals in the pre-existence ,I get the feeling that that variation existed pre spirit form.So also could be gender??

I think it's important to note that Joseph's description of Paul was a paraphrase of an apocryphal writing he is known to have had in his possession, and doesn't appear to be the direct result of a vision.

From the Acts of Paul and Thecla:

"At length they saw a man coming (namely Paul), of a small stature with meeting eyebrows, bald [or shaved] head, bow- legged, strongly built, hollow-eyed, with a large crooked nose; he was full of grace, for sometimes he appeared as a man, sometimes he had the countenance of an angel."

Compare Joseph's description:

"He is about 5 foot high; very dark hair; dark complexion, dark skin; large Roman nose; sharp face; small black eyes, penetrating as eternity; round shoulders; a whining voice, except when elevated and then it almost resembles the roaring of a lion. He was a good orator."

[TAO]

Nack, you didn't address the reasons I gave in the other thread.... =/

I agree - it is not stated directly. Nor do I think it should. However, I do not think you should so quickly assume it to be a choice, for it seems not so.

My main reason would be, there would no reason for polygamous wives to be given for their exaltation in the eternal worlds (D&C 132:63) if we were able to choose gender. This would be because with choice, a split-even gender divide could be created, thus leading to exactly one man per woman.

As a man and a woman together can also be exalted, that statement would no longer make sense. That is why I believe gender, like intelligence, is eternal. If we had choice, God, who can see the end from the beginning, would be able to set up the world so that polygamy wouldn't be needed for that reason, and yet he gives it.

Furthermore, if gender was chosen, then I ask, why did people go through with the plan, despite knowing their struggles with homosexuality? Would it not be easy to instead choose the opposite gender?

These are not reasons saying that it is that way - but they are things to think about before one says it was choice.

[california boy]

Furthermore, if gender was chosen, then I ask, why did people go through with the plan, despite knowing their struggles with homosexuality? Would it not be easy to instead choose the opposite gender?

These are not reasons saying that it is that way - but they are things to think about before one says it was choice.

I think you might be implying that someone who is homosexual if given the choice would choose to be the opposite sex. That certainly is not generally true. Gay men do not want to be a women any more than straight men want to be a woman. The only difference is gay men are attracted to men rather than women.

[tana]

Live science

Women aren't from Venus after all

Popular culture tells us that women and men's brains are just different. It's true that male and female hormones affect brain development differently, and imaging studies have found brain differences in the ways women and men feel pain, make social decisions and cope with stress. The extent to which these differences are genetic versus shaped by experience -- the old nature-versus-nurture debate -- is unknown.

But for the most part, male and female brains (and brainpower) are similar. A 2005 American Psychologist analysis of research on gender differences found that in 78 percent of gender differences reported in other studies, the effect of gender on the behavior was in the small or close-to-zero range. And recent studies have debunked myths about the genders' divergent abilities. A study published in the January 2010 Psychological Bulletin looked at almost half a million boys and girls from 69 countries and found no overall gap in math ability. Focusing on our differences may make for catchy book titles, but in neuroscience, nothing is ever that simple.

[nicolasconnault]

But for the most part, male and female brains (and brainpower) are similar. A 2005 American Psychologist analysis of research on gender differences found that in 78 percent of gender differences reported in other studies, the effect of gender on the behavior was in the small or close-to-zero range. And recent studies have debunked myths about the genders' divergent abilities. A study published in the January 2010 Psychological Bulletin looked at almost half a million boys and girls from 69 countries and found no overall gap in math ability. Focusing on our differences may make for catchy book titles, but in neuroscience, nothing is ever that simple.

This meta-analysis deals with a common problem in the categorisation of behaviour: there are so many variables influencing behaviour that it is impossible to measure them all, thus making it difficult to tease out which variable is most influential. Furthermore, interactions between the variables, then interactions between interactions (possible to detect statistically, but nearly impossible to explain or describe in lay terms) add to the "noise" in the data. Being male or female probably has some influence, generally speaking, on behaviour, but cultural factors are also very powerful, both in their provision of gender roles and their homogenisation of behaviour across genders.

As you hinted, our natural tendency to enjoy neat categories and niches into which we can place people, making their behaviour easier to understand and classify, also leads to over-simplification and a significant loss of individual accuracy. We erroneously draw conclusions about such rough categories as males vs females based on our observations of a few data points amongst an ocean of largely unmeasurable variables. Seeking to understand gender differences this way is not helpful.

[TAO]

I think you might be implying that someone who is homosexual if given the choice would choose to be the opposite sex. That certainly is not generally true. Gay men do not want to be a women any more than straight men want to be a woman. The only difference is gay men are attracted to men rather than women.

I'm talking about in the pre-existence, when those feelings would not have existed. You would certainly want to choose the opposite sex from which you would be attracted to.

Bleh, this topic makes me sad =/.

[thesometimesaint]

The old nature v nurture game. My perspective is that without nature there can be no nurture, and without nurture nature wouldn't last very long.