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kennewick man


hondo

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Last year my Canadian History Prof told us his belief that asians were not th eonly ones who came to america. His evidence is Kennewick man who he said was italian, or at least caucasian. He also talked about a plynesian girl or woman found in Brazil named luzia, or something like that. What do we know more about kennewick man?

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Guest The Headless Laban

I think Kennewick man rode around on a tapir and smote his enemies down using a wooden club with rocks imbedded in it. His best friend was Zelph. He he. Actually, I thought Kennewick man was from Japan.

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I've read on the "Recovery" board about riding tapirs. Weird. Perhaps they do it as therapy.

That's the only place I've ever run into the idea.

I wonder where they get that idea. It's not like anybody has ever suggested that horses are tapirs or anything ridiculous like that. This means that the "Recovery" board is a cult, doesn't it?

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It's not like anybody has ever suggested that horses are tapirs or anything ridiculous like that.

Is there any evidence in the text of the Book of Mormon of people riding horses?

Incidentally, the perception of a resemblance between tapirs and horses isn't uniquely Mormon and doesn't seem to be "ridiculous." See Daniel C. Peterson and Matthew Roper, "Ein Heldenleben? On Thomas Stuart Ferguson as an Elias for Cultural Mormons," The FARMS Review 16/1 (2004): 175-219. Still, ignorant chortling is rather fun, isn't it?

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Guest Just Curious
Incidentally, the perception of a resemblance between tapirs and horses isn't uniquely Mormon and doesn't seem to be "ridiculous."

Sorry Dan but I disagree, the difference between a tapir and horse is significant. (did I mention I have a degree in wildlife biology?) Besides using the supposition that Joseph did not know what a tapir was and he thought it was a horse would indicate that somehow he had a picture of the "horse". I cannot find any documentation that says pictures popped up on the peep stone. In fact it plainly is said by the transcriber(s)....that the "words" would appear on the stone as if appearing on parchament and they were read to the transcriber and read back, so if the word horse appeared what would make us think it was a tapir...it if was a tapir, why didn't the word tapir appear. I am quite sure you have studied the horse/tapir theory to death but there is more evidence and logic against that theory than there is in support of it.

Here are some tidbits on the mountain tapir of South America...which is just one of several species the others are very similar in characteristics

General Characteristics

Body Length: 180 cm / 6 ft.

Shoulder Height: 75-80 cm / 30-32 in.

Tail Length: 5-10 cm / 2-4 in.

Weight: 225-250 kg / 495-550 lb

Frankly there are more outward features of the tapir that resemble the pig than the horse. It would be more likely that if the tapir was anything it was a pig.

For example...body length 6 ft. Large pigs get to be 4-6 feet or more in length where a normal horse is 8-10 feet or more

Shoulder height 30-32 inches...just about right for a pig, whereas a horse typically is 5-6 feet

Tail length 2-4 inches...a pig normally is about 6-12 inches and curleyd but a typical horse has a haired tail usually 4-6 feet long

Weight 495-550 lbs...not unusual for a pig where as a typical horse is usually at least 800 lbs and sometimes well over 1500 lbs.

The snout on a tapir is much closer in resemblance to that of a pig, as are the ears as well (comparatively speaking to a horse). And the most obvious fact is that tapirs have multiple hooves like a pig not a single hoof like a horse. Realistically speaking an uneducated person would be much more apt to mistake a tapir for a pig than for a horse.

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It seems that you haven't read the relevant portion of the article to which I made reference. As I said, Mormons aren't alone in this. When the Conquistadores first arrived in Central America, for example, the local Indian tribes even called the Spanish horses and donkeys tzimin, or "tapirs." And so on and so forth. We didn't make this up. And we're far and away neither the first nor the only people to comment on it.

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Guest Just Curious
It seems that you haven't read the relevant portion of the article to which I made reference. As I said, Mormons aren't alone in this. When the Conquistadores first arrived in Central America, for example, the local Indian tribes even called the Spanish horses and donkeys tzimin, or "tapirs." And so on and so forth. We didn't make this up. And we're far and away neither the first nor the only people to comment on it.

I didn't see a link to the article to read so yes I have not read it. However the peoples of central america had never seen a pig as well, do you suppose they would have called a pig a tapir? I am sure you are familiar with what a pig looks like as well as a horse and a tapir. In your opinion Dan what does a tapir come closer to looking like, a horse or a pig?

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I've read on the "Recovery" board about riding tapirs. Weird. Perhaps they do it as therapy.

That's the only place I've ever run into the idea.

RFM averaged 145,000 hits per day last year. How many were Herr Doktor himself? :P

Of course he would have seen this there:

Tapir-Back Riders

Tune: "Paperback Writer"

Dear Sir or Madam will you read my book?

It took me years to write, will you take a look?

It's based on a novel by a man named Joe

And the main idea is the Lamanites were

Tapir-back riders

Tapir-back riders

See, the Nephites came to the promised land

And those damn exmos just don't understand

That when they said "horse" they meant something else

But it all makes sense if you know that they were

Tapir-back riders

Tapir-back riders

I know the whole thing doesn't hold up well

If you take it literally, but what the hell

There

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Kozaru,

Thanks for the link to that garbage board, RFM. The LDS Church must be the true church, how right you are. When most ex-members do decide to leave, it is because they are doing something wrong, and religion becomes a popular subject to lash out at. However, since I can't do all of that fancy link stuff yet, here is a pretty good spot to go to & find some explanations. It's 'the-book-of-maormon.com' Have fun.

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Is there any evidence in the text of the Book of Mormon of people riding horses?

Is there any evidence in the text of the Book of Mormon of horses being anything other than horses?

Is it absurd to assume that people that had horses and used them as beasts of burden rode on them?

If it were discovered tomorrow that there really were horses in the Americas that the Indians used during the BoM timeframe, would you and other apologists still argue that the BoM text refers to tapirs where it uses the word "horse"? I'm betting you would drop that argument like a hot potato.

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Guest The Headless Laban

Is there any evidence in the text of the Book of Mormon of people riding horses?

Is there any evidence in the text of the Book of Mormon of horses being anything other than horses?

Is it absurd to assume that people that had horses and used them as beasts of burden rode on them?

If it were discovered tomorrow that there really were horses in the Americas that the Indians used during the BoM timeframe, would you and other apologists still argue that the BoM text refers to tapirs where it uses the word "horse"? I'm betting you would drop that argument like a hot potato.

The Book of Mormon does not say anyone rode on horses, but IIRC, it did say the horses pulled people in chariots. Are tapirs good chariot pullers?

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The Book of Mormon does not say anyone rode on horses, but IIRC, it did say the horses pulled people in chariots. Are tapirs good chariot pullers?

More importantly, does the Book of Mormon say explicitly that people rode in these chariots? They could have just harnessed teams of tapirs to chariots and let them run amuck for no particularly good reason. I know a guy who used to drive the train at a zoo, and he once commented to me that if a team of tapirs were to be harnessed to a chariot, they would do a good job of running amuck. So you see, the Book of Mormon probably referred to tapirs where Joseph Smith used the word "horse". That is a lot more likely than the anti-mormon lie that Joseph Smith said that horses were in the Americas when Lehi and his family arrived, because he didn't know that the Europeans brought the horses here. Why oh why do those anti-mormons persist in their lies?

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RFM averaged 145,000 hits per day last year.  How many were Herr Doktor himself?

All but about 130-140, I'd guess.

Of course he would have seen this there:
Tapir-Back Riders

Tune: "Paperback Writer"

Dear Sir or Madam will you read my book?

It took me years to write, will you take a look?

It's based on a novel by a man named Joe

And the main idea is the Lamanites were

Tapir-back riders

Tapir-back riders

See, the Nephites came to the promised land

And those damn exmos just don't understand

That when they said "horse" they meant something else

But it all makes sense if you know that they were

Tapir-back riders

Tapir-back riders

I know the whole thing doesn't hold up well

If you take it literally, but what the hell

There

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So The Japanese are really caucasians? I thought they weren't.

I didn't say they were Japanese.

I said they lived in the region now known as Japan.

At the time of the documentary, Nova said that there were only about 250 of that race left.

By the way, the term "caucasian" is also slightly misleading.

The film identifies three types of skulls: caucasoid, negroid and mongoloid. It has to do with skull shape.

So don't think of a blond-haired, blue-eyed American. :P

Check out the film. It's great.

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I will check out the film, our main library is down for repairs and blah blah blah. So would you say that kennewick man is part of the asiatic movement of people who came to the america's? If I remember correctly my Prof said he did not believe that the bering strait was the only way people came over. He said that this idea was not popular but he had a doctorate in canadian history and did not give a fig what nay sayers said. He just did not believe in the bering strait theory as being the only way over. Thanks pwalters for the info!

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